Goodyear Tires

[lewpopp]

I recall hearing that there were representatives at the SV rally from Goodyear. I would be interested in hearing some comments on what they said and how the reception was to the minds of all of you P owners. Did they convince you that they have tires that will do the trick, etc., etc.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I wasn't there but I bet I could guess.

How many miles did you go last year Lew maybe 5000? How many this year maybe 5000 and next year maybe 5000 more.

I get the best price whatever brand they were and I especially would if that is all we would be going was 5000 a year, or maybe even less.

[garyde]

We had a Local Michelin rep come out and speak with us at the Pahrump, Nevada rally. One of his most interesting comments had to do with Longevity which he stated a tire could last indefinately ,more or less ,if inspected regularly . The key is the sidewalls and to inspect for visible cracking.
Another subject had to do with re-grooving which means when your tires are worn down, they can be sent in and have another 1/2" or so of new groove treads put on them. One other item has to do with using nitrogen, don't bother.

[flyu2there]

Adding to Gary's comments, the Michelin Man handed everyone a card that one can lay over the sidewall to examine cracks in the rubber. I was surprised at how bad a tire could be yet still be deemed acceptable by Michelin standards. Everyone should have one of those cards.........

Another point made was that Ozone was one of the major perps in tire wear...not from the road. Ozone means SMOG which means big city guys will eat tires faster than the country bumpkins.

Nitrogen.... viable with a new set of tires but really no help on a current set. Fact remains that nitrogen has bigger molecules, leaks out slower and is dead on dry when put into the tire so rust and corosion would be a thing of the past. :cool:

John

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'll bet John is baiting me about nitrogen. Won't work.

The Goodyear and Michelin discussions were almost identical with the Michelin guy providing the little card for inspections. I now know I have thrown out some perfectly good tires in the past and Peter was right when he said about how long to keep tires.

The short version is the tires will be warranted by the manufacturer for 6 years from date of installation, and even if the date codes show the manufacturing date was as much as four years from installation making the tires ten years old they will still be warranted. Both tire companies stated clearly that after 10 years the tires must come off.

They both also stated that if the coach is stored with no weight on the tires, such as the tires would be stored in a warehouse that is the best thing that can be done for tires and will increase their life. If the tires get punctured they must be properly repaired and it was stated that involves a plug and a patch on the inside to minimize the chance of water or moisture getting to the steel belts.

Neither guy used nitrogen in their personal car tires.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Yes Jon and lets not leave out that all the same applies to those Chinese tires that cost you 350 each as does the Michelin at 650.

The tires on our bus are The big M and they are 99 and 2000's. They are in my opinion very cracked in the sidewall. The new owners will definitely need to replace them. The gentleman that came and took it went from Chicago through Omaha, then Missouri then Texas and across 10 into Florida. I made sure he had 100lbs in them and he had no trouble (had me worried to death though).

[flyu2there]

I'll bet John is baiting me about nitrogen. Won't work.

If the tires get punctured they must be properly repaired and it was stated that involves a plug and a patch on the inside to minimize the chance of water or moisture getting to the steel belts.

Neither guy used nitrogen in their personal car tires.

So,let me get this straight.........you plug and patch a tire so you don't get moisture inside of the tire that may attack your steel belts?:confused: Then you turn on your trusty compressor and fill your tire with Southern Summer Air, guessing 85% humidity?

How many dentists have you gone to with bad teeth......lotsa them. How many doctors go to the doctor unless they are near death...very few of them. Same thing with these tire guys....BTW the going rate in Pahrump for 315's was 8 something...mounted and balanced.....but the balance, that's another thread.

John

[Joe Cannarozzi]

John we did an experiment with nitrogen.

I was drawn to it because we live up North have wireless tire monitors and get false low pressure alarms on cold mornings that those Nitrogen folks and advertizers said would remedy the situation. It also seemed it would be nice if folks could air up the steers to 115 cold due to the heavier front axle weights some experience without having them grow to 130+ concrete donuts in the heat.

IT DID NOT.

We filled steer tires on Debs brothers Pete with it and did extensive checking at various parameters. Cold pressure on cold mornings, on normal mornings. Hot pressures on hot days, hot pressures on cold days to name a few. There was NO DIFFERENCE in any fashion with the drop in pressure due to the cold or the increase do to heat.

I would like to save you from the same mistake I made but something tells me I will fail.

The tires on our bus are 10 years old the bus has always been stored outside to my knowledge frequently in or near big cities and big ozone and they have gracefully made it through to the end of their safe useful lifespan without Nitrogen, without incident.

I suppose that I would be interested in seeing a 10 year old set of tires that have been filled with the stuff from day 1 to see if any sidewall cracking would occur but Even on 10 year old tires, any tires I have ever seen ALL the cracking occurs on the outside of the tire anyway. I have NEVER seen a tire with cracking on the inside and I have seen plenty.

[Orren Zook]

The tires on our bus are The big M and they are 99 and 2000's. They are in my opinion very cracked in the sidewall. The new owners will definitely need to replace them. The gentleman that came and took it went from Chicago through Omaha, then Missouri then Texas and across 10 into Florida. I made sure he had 100lbs in them and he had no trouble (had me worried to death though).



Joe, does this mean you're in the NBC?

[flyu2there]

Joe,

Airplanes have been using nitrogen for years for three reasons. First, it's very dry, no moisture at all. Second, the molecules of nitrogen are much bigger than oxygen, although I will yield that you only have 25 to 30% oxygen in your typical outside air, it leaks out slower and all tires do leak. Third, oxygen does not do well with heat...it gets hot and stays hot, the molecules get hot and start moving like Banshees and the pressure goes up......nitrogen on the other hand gets hot but cools quickly. Yes the pressure will go up but not nearly to the degree as standard outside air. While nitrogen is not one of the inert gases it can be stated that it's behaviour is inert.

I will yield to fact that nitrogen probably is not required in most typical operatios, especially with these busses however the evidence is out there that nitrogen is a far better medium. My personal reason for supporting nitrogen has to do with road heat. It is not uncommon for the roads and highways in the Desert Southwest to reach 130 degrees or more. I cannot tell you how many truck/trailer recaps are spread over the highways and byways of the Desert...they get hot and fail although we all know that most truckers use the low speed rated tires and usually re-cap as well...cheaper. Nitrogen, while it does not run any cooler, at the end of the day it will take longer to heat up will dissapate the heat much faster and that's enough for me.

I guess we can agree to disagree....:D

John

[0533]

Joe,

Airplanes have been using nitrogen for years for three reasons. First, it's very dry, no moisture at all. Second, the molecules of nitrogen are much bigger than oxygen, although I will yield that you only have 25 to 30% oxygen in your typical outside air, it leaks out slower and all tires do leak. Third, oxygen does not do well with heat...it gets hot and stays hot, the molecules get hot and start moving like Banshees and the pressure goes up......nitrogen on the other hand gets hot but cools quickly. Yes the pressure will go up but not nearly to the degree as standard outside air. While nitrogen is not one of the inert gases it can be stated that it's behaviour is inert.

I will yield to fact that nitrogen probably is not required in most typical operatios, especially with these busses however the evidence is out there that nitrogen is a far better medium. My personal reason for supporting nitrogen has to do with road heat. It is not uncommon for the roads and highways in the Desert Southwest to reach 130 degrees or more. I cannot tell you how many truck/trailer recaps are spread over the highways and byways of the Desert...they get hot and fail although we all know that most truckers use the low speed rated tires and usually re-cap as well...cheaper. Nitrogen, while it does not run any cooler, at the end of the day it will take longer to heat up will dissapate the heat much faster and that's enough for me.

I guess we can agree to disagree....:D

John
I purchased 8 Michelin's at Jacksonville Prevost the other day. They are in the process of installing a nitrogen service there.

The Marathon Florida location is considering installing one as well. When you dump nearly $7K in new thread adding a few $100 doesn't seem like too much for all 8. My concern was when I needed to top off the tires, this will not be an easy process finding Nitrogen, plus there is no reason in the world it has to be so expensive. Get the price down and more people will get onboard. The machine costs $5k, how much does a really good balancing machine cost. Price it right and all trucks and RV's will fill up on it.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

The pressure increased and dissipated EXACTLY THE SAME WITH AND WITHOUT. As well as the degree that took place.

And what would be the advantage considering the set of tires on our bus that made it 10 years, while stored outside, without issue with just "normal air".

Orren unfortunately yes.

[flyu2there]

Joe,

I cannot argue with that however, as mentioned earlier, the hot, and I mean hot roads of the Desert Southwest puts a bit of a different tint on things. Also, and by no means am I an expert, but having broken down a tire or two in my day, it is not uncommon to find water, rust, dirt and even blow by oil from a compressor inside of the wheel and tire. The aluminum wheels may well corrode and certainly steel wheels will rust, although I am still unsure of how a steel belt inside of the steel belted radial could ever rust, aside from a huge puncture wound, I would sumize that they are at risk as well.

I must agree that the chances of a failure caused by using compressed vice N2 are slim, however there certainly is a trend to switch. Costco puts N2 in all new tires sold...............

As Bruce mentioned, if one drops 7k for a set of skins then the extra couple of hundred is chump change....just in case. Do agree that the machines are way too much money but they offer convenience for the service facility. No luggin around 6 foot by 1 foot bottles of gas containers, no calling the gas guy for a re-load, no huge pipe wrenches to make it all happen.

I am still willing to wager that N2 will be standard fare in the next few years.......


John

[Jon Wehrenberg]

While N2 may be standard fare in XX years may be true, I think this falls in the category of "feel good".

Carbon credits, One-A-Day vitamins, XM radio, and Bio fuels all fall in the same category in my opinion. In each one there may be a measurable benefit compared to the alternative but it is so slight that emotion drives the use of them.

I have no idea how our society managed as well as it did with compressed air for tires. I have no idea how my grandparents who lived into their late eighties or nineties managed without their One-A-Day vitamins. Heaven knows how we will manage to survive by actually having to dial a radio station instead of just tuning in XM.

Our society sure is easily fooled.

[flyu2there]

Jon,

You are not playing by the rules!!:D

One a Day will keep you sticker pecking out...that should solve that!!

Go with the flow...N2 is the way

[jonnie]

What about N2 at the nudist parks?

[0533]

What about N2 at the nudist parks?
Please leave my Nudist theme out of this thread, as this is between Queen and Myself.

As for Jon's comments, I would like to do a complete check of his house and shop, bet we will find some pretty interesting "Very Modern" gadgets hidden in the corners.

For a brief moment Jon, I thought you were about to trade in your Air Filled tires for a set of wagon wheels.