Diesel Mechanic Near Dallas

[tdelorme]

I knew for awhile that I had a small leak at my drivers side exhaust manifold. Talked to Stewart & Stevenson back in March and was told to expect the job to run around twelve hundred if no problems came up while doing the work. But, the guy told me to expect at least one stud to break during removal and that would push the price up even more.
I knew the mechanic that did the code read and ran the valves on my engine last year was somewhere around Dallas, so I called Paul Davis and got his phone number. This guy worked for Stewart & Stevenson for several years and knows his stuff around Detroit Diesel engines. Took the coach to him a week ago today. I also bought and delivered to him new manifold gaskets for both sides, new studs, nuts & washers, 8 gallons of Power Cool antifreeze ($20 a gallon) and told him to call me if he found anything else that needed replacing. We talked several times during the week. He wanted to replace both pyro probes and we found them at Buddy Gregg in Dallas, and new turbo tube clamps.
Now I will say that my engine has never leaked oil, and before I took the coach to him I cleaned the engine and engine compartment real good. Every time we talked he said something about how nice and clean everything was and it sure made the job go faster.
OK, all of that to say the mechanic called around noon today to say the coach was ready to pick up. Great, how much cash should I bring with me??
Well, he says, how about $450 bucks.
Dang, this guy does BOTH sides and a few other things for one third of what S&S wanted for one side. Yea, I can live with that.
So, if anyone around Dallas needs a good DD mechanic and is willing to pay below what you might expect, send me a PM and I will get you this guys info.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This is harsh and is meant to be.

S and S seems to be going to the same school Prevost has gone lately. The stories I have heard lately about the Prevost pricing policy is almost identical to what Ted related about S and S and their quote.

The manifold gasket replacement on an 8V92 almost always involves an unintended stud removal and sometimes a broken stud. But since the process actually only involves the removal of the manifolds I would guess that 4 hours per job would involve the glitches that occur, including coolant removal and replacement. The excessive pricing is exactly what Prevost is now doing in Mira Loma and possibly other locations and as a result they are likely going to lose customer loyalty which in the case of both companies has been high.

[Coloradobus]

Our S and S is what I call fair. Last month after traversing a slock slide taking out our oil pan, I took the coach to Commerce City , Co. Harvey, in the bus shop found an oil pan at a sister facility in Dallas for $1219.00. I thought maybe I could do better not satisfied and called DD. They gave me the number of the other DD shop here in Denver, TransWest Trucks who we had used with when we had plastic coaches. They could get me an oil pan out of Freightliner/DD Reno for $924.
I went back to our S and S, Harvey said they would install anything I bring. so R/R oil pan change out filters since it was time, and I had 10 gallons of Mobil Delvac, likewise coolant filter for $367.00. TransWest gave me a quote using my pan they ordered, do the same servicing, cost almost $600.00 (5 hours labor+ parts and shop supplies. I guess it all depends on where you go and who you know.
Oh ya, I would like to know the name of that DD mechanic in Dallas.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Jim As soon as I read what you paid for that oil pan the red flag went up. I can get a whole used engine for 2500 to 3500 bucks.

So I did some looking around.

The first place I called www.rivercitytruckparts.com 502 957 6829 said they needed to know if it was a front or rear sump the number off of it and 175 bucks. They are in Louisville.

The next call I made was to my local guys who will be calling me back, and will probably be less:eek:

Didn't a thousand dollars for a used oil pan seem a little extreme to anyone else???????????????????

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I suspect that the companies that repair our coaches are establishing niches for themselves.

We have historically used Prevost and Detroit Diesel / Allison dealers and as a group have avoided the local truck repair shops. I think in the past we were assured by using those shops such as Prevost and DD that the job would get done right and we would only spend a few more dollars.

This group however has had bad experiences lately with the quality of repairs at the very shops that have used to serve us properly. We have heard lately of ridiculous pricing for certain jobs. We have heard of POG members that have had poor quality repairs and multiple returns until the repairs were finally correct. We have heard of "repairs" actually causing further damage. The problems have not been limited to any specific problem but have ranged from curing the leans, replacing hub seals, air bags, and reskinning the coaches.

The work has either been too expensive, or unnecessary work has been performed, or the repair stretched beyond what was a reasonable time. Some POG members are now specifying a particular mechanic because of bad luck with others. Some POG members are "greasing palms" to get better treatment. Some POG members no longer know what to do because their list of needed repairs never gets finished.

I really think the members of this group need to arm themselves with knowledge about what parts should cost and how much time specific repairs should take. Between us we have either done the work or paid to have the work done, and from our collective knowledge we should be able to create a comprehensive listing of these repair or maintenance items so we can get a clear picture of what a reasonable cost will be for any given task.

Those of us who do our own work are relatively unaffected by the raping that is taking place at repair facilities, but that does not mean we cannot help those who choose to have others do their repairs. It seems that repair shops today are using fixed prices to do repairs with little regard to what is actually involved. These fixed prices seem to be too high, but worse, it was discussed in Pahrump that work that is supposed to be included is often not done. Is there any interest in a work session at an upcoming rally to gather data to include in a document listing material costs and times for common service taskes?

The upper tier repair shops we have traditionally used may be pricing themselves out of the market and perhaps as Ted did we need to find alternative sources for service that will be priced fairly and who will do quality work such as independent shops or charter bus companies.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Anyone care to finance opening a service facility?

I got the time, knowledge and ambition.

[JIM KELLER]

Joe, You would be a perfect fit for this type of an operation. Location would probably be the only downfall.

Jon, Let us not forget the sponsors that support POG. If I had a Liberty for example, based on what you have said in the past, I would be at their facility for repairs I couldn't handle myself. Here in Largo, Fl. Parliment has always exceeded my expectations on any repairs they have performed for me. They spend lots of money attending our Rallies and give a generous amount of support. A return on investment example would be truk4u when he drove down here from Ga. to Parliment for repairs. I know you know all this but I just wanted to point out our problem is not with the people we trust.

[tdelorme]

We picked up the coach yesterday evening around 6 PM. The engine compartment was neat as a pin. The guy took the time to spray high temp black paint on the manifolds (even the new nuts & washers) and the whole turbo system. Looks great, coach runs great, I'm happy.
So we visit with the fellow for quite awhile. He worked for S & S for 12 years. Started as an apprentice mechanic and worked as an apprentice for one year. There were never more than two apprentices in the shop at a time back then. After the first year he was turned loose to do any Detroit job that came into the shop, and spent the last 2 1/2 years as the on site Greyhound Bus Line mechanic.
He said that today, there are so few folks wanting to be diesel mechanics, that there may be ten guys in the shop working as an apprentice. And, after 90 days, they are on their own. This fellow is not bad mouthing S & S, just stating the current state of affairs.
He said S & S is making him an offer that is going to be hard to turn down, but if he goes back he will still moonlight at his home shop. He is concerned about a conflict of interest and ask me to call him in the evening if I need him.
A list of shops that we have had good success with would be an asset for POG. Many small shops around the country that still care about the quality of the work they turn out and while most of them will never be a forum sponsor we should share this info some how or another.
My guy prefers his info not be listed openly, but as I said before, I will be glad to PM his name and number to anyone who needs it.

[MangoMike]

I wish I had a business where I didn't need potential customers to know of my location or services.

FYI

Mango Mike's
4580 Duke St.
Alexandria, Va. 22304
703.370.3800

Exotic Eats. Caribbean Beats.

[JIM KELLER]

Mike, I think we need a Rally at your place ! How big is that parking lot anyway. Any R.V.Parks nearby ? What a Blow-Out that would be ! I can just see the Auction now ! ! !

[JIM KELLER]

Don't know how this fits into Diesel Mechanic Near Dallas. Sorry .

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I agree that we should support our advertisers, especially since they are first class operations. What this has to do with a diesel mechanic near Dallas is simple. Ted would have no need whatsoever to even start this thread if the folks who built his engine were to work on his engine.

I don't think our problems in getting service now are converter related.

[JIM KELLER]

Jon, My Post " Dont know how this fits into Diesel Mechanic Near Dallas " was referring to the post to Mango Mike. I put it in the wrong Thread location. Sorry for the confusion.

[garyde]

I don't have any horror stories, yet, regarding Prevost or anyone else, but I really want to start doing some of my own work. That's why I bought the stands Jon offered, thanks again Jon. I have a Detroit/Allison Shop 30 miles from me and they are very good and fair. Unfortunately, they say no one is interested in keeping the facility open after the principals retire so they may close.
I have similar problems in my industry finding and keeping young people who want to learn a trade. One of the reasons is the State and the school systems do not encourage Trade crafts in school. Infact , they focus fully on pointing kids toward college and buisness schools. It's a real problem in this country.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

OK, I will ask a question that goes to the heart of this issue. This has been discussed by folks from both sides of the country so it is not based on an isolated incident.

If someone familiar with our coaches, and who has the mechanical skills to work on our coaches opened a facility for maintenance and limited repairs would those who do not do their own work support this facility? Let's presume this facility is in FL and southern CA.

The facility would do all preventive maintenance such as oil and filter changes and lubes on the bus and generator. But it would also do common repairs such as air springs, brakes, fixing the leans, replacing hub seals and bearings, etc.

Ideally if enough owners were to use the facility it could be a once a year comprehensive IRAN (inspect and replace as necessary), with routine oil changes in between annual services. I would surmise the annual IRAN would cost about $3000 plus parts, would take a week, but when you rolled out of the lot the bus would be as perfect as humanly possible. Subsequent visits would use the first IRAN as a baseline and would be much less expensive.

In other words, except for complex repairs, body work, or converter specific problems the facility would care for your coach using detailed and comprehensive checklists designed to prevent problems at a cost that is very reasonable compared to costs we are now hearing about.

Comments? Suggestions? Ideas?

[phorner]

Jon,

I, for one, would certainly support such a maintenance facility. I am very fortunate to be so close to Liberty Coach for maintenance, but competition usually encourages reasonable prices for quality work.

My biggest concern always is finding someone that I can TRUST to do the job right. I don't necessarily look for the lowest cost, but I do appreciate quality in the repairs/maintenance performed.

You can often tell a lot about the place simply by the condition of the facility. If the supervisors and technicians appear to care about their workplace by keeping a clean and orderly shop, there's a good chance that they will care about the quality of the work performed for the customer.

So far, Liberty Coach has not disappointed me. There is also a DD shop very close to me in Fort Pierce that will perform all of the engine and transmission maintenance and repairs, but I have no personal experience with them.

[truk4u]

I would absolutely support the facility Jon and hopefully it's near Knoxville!;)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Paul,

There is no doubt in my mind that there are places like Liberty that are doing a great job at prices that are fair. But this discussion would never take place if that was the case across the board.

POG members have seen posts from other members in which poor quality work for basic repairs was experienced or outrageous prices were charged for work that was previously priced fairly.

Not everybody has access to a Liberty Coach facility and not all service facilities such as DD dealers want to change air springs. So it just seems a service company set up to handle the routine maintenance and common repairs would benefit all but the companies that choose to gouge Prevost owners.

Truk,

Knoxville would be a great location but from a business point of view it would not be anywhere near as ideal as a FL location. Look at Dale's map to see where POG members are located and it almost mandates that for any company to reach our market they need to be in FL or southern CA.

[JIM KELLER]

Jon, I would support a facility like this. Just look at the post from Brian this morning ref his cooling system issue at a Prevost facility. Its all in the technicians doing the work. Of course management is of the utmost importance !

[phorner]

One potential problem that I see is that if the quality of service is indeed exceptional, and offered at a reasonable price, that the demand will ultimately be so great that appointments would have to be made several months in advance.

Although this is a small "price" to pay for quality service that you can trust, it may turn some folks off.

And, I'd be all for a Florida location ;)

[garyde]

Jon, word of mouth is the great equalizer. Let's make a map of the good shops. With all of the regulations , licensing, Re-cycleing, Zoning, Filing, Fees, State & Local official hand greasing, which would be needed and required, who would be insane enough to open a shop in California?

[kenrobertson]

I've been following this thread with great interest ( admittedly somewhat self serving ). At Parliament Coach we have always promoted an annual service program for our customers, but have limited it to routine services and repairing of primarily the coach functions. We are currently getting bids to expand our service facility to include a separate chassis area with a 60000 lb lift. We have found very qualified chassis types and hope to be up and running by late summer. We would sincerely appreciate any and all imput as to what services and repairs you think we would need to provide. We are looking at being able to provide everything but internal engine and transmission repairs.

As you know, we value your imput.........there is no longer a nitrogen generator being tested at Parliament Coach.....thanks guys

Ken

[jello_jeep]

Ken, I think the thread is pretty much a handbook on what owners want. Probably top of the list would be FAIR pricing and a genuine feeling that unnecessary repairs are not being solicited, and that the stated repairs are being done at all for one thing, and being done in a proper manner for another.

Its a pretty sad commentary that many owners babysit the mechanic all day to prevent overbilling and the tech screwing around on your dime.

A close second would be standing behind the work done in case of failure.

I would think if you went out of your way to do those things, and got a reputation going, you would be wondering what to do with all the $$ floating in!

Good luck with the new chassis shop!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ken,

This is second and third hand, plus some of what I will repeat you have read on the forum already.

I know of no less than 6 owners who have recently taken their coaches in for routine service and have either been charged excessive prices, or who have had very unsatisfactory work, or both. Some of the problems went from a minor repair to a very serious problem necessitating major repairs, including damage far beyond the area repaired.

The guilty parties have ranged from Prevost Service centers (the named ones are Mira Loma, Ft. Worth and Nashville) to non Prevost facilities that have previously done excellent work at fair prices.

One converter was among the shops that had done expensive unsatisfactory repairs.

Several of the POG members, me included, do most if not all our own work. The jobs that I refer to are things I have done myself and I know others in POG have also done. They require a degree of skill, but nothing on the level of a master mechanic who gets into the bowels of an engine or transmission. They are what I would describe as routine maintenance items such as hub seals, air springs, curing the leans, replacing fluids and filters, etc.

There were more horror stories from the west coast owners than the east coast guys, but that might just be because I spent a week with the west coast guys.

The short version I am hearing is the owners want to pay a fair price for work done exactly right. Pretty simple. If an owner has a leaky hub seal all he wants is a new seal, installed so it does not leak and so he does not have to return. He only wants to pay for the actual hours of labor. He does not want to pay a fixed price that includes every possible problem. If it takes 2 hours and the mechanic hasn't spent half of them scratching his butt and drinking coffee, the owner is more than willing to pay the shop rate for the job especially if he doesn't have to return two, three, or even four times before it is finally correct.

How hard can that be?

Prevost in Mira Loma, and I presume all over the country now has fixed prices for jobs. That is fine as long as those prices are reasonable. But they are not. Oil changes with filters and a lube used to cost about $350 according to the owners I spoke to and now the going price is $750. Air spring replacement is now quoted at $500 per air bag. That's $4000 per coach for about $1100 worth of parts and 12 hours labor maximum. I can give other examples but you guys are probably already seeing this when you send a coach up to Prevost.

I gagged when I heard what one owner was charged for the replacement of two XL windshields. Volvo is out of touch. Their mechanics need to attend the POG seminars to see how a four figure windshield replacement is done in 45 minutes by someone who had never done the job.

If all converters offered chassis service the owners would clearly benefit. With the exception of panel replacement, paint, collision repair, engine overhauls or replacement and transmission overhauls or replacement all the work that needs to be routinely done on our coaches is simple relatively speaking. Ask any body that works on their own cars.

I know Liberty does this work, and there may be others that do it as well. I think it is a great idea so we owners have more choices, but especially if the pressure of competition raises the quality level of the work performed while keeping the prices in line with the actual hours spent doing the work.

[tdelorme]

OK, we all agree the Prevost service centers are currently delivering a level of service that in some cases is unacceptable. I'm sure there are many cases of customers who leave one of the Prevost shops and are happy with the work performed and the charges incurred. If there are some of those folks out there, I would like to hear from you.

Also, I'm going to stick up for Prevost Service in one area. As far as I know, Prevost will do everything possible to let the owner stay with their coach while it is being serviced. Very few shops these days will allow the customer access to a vehicle that is being worked on. Prevost not only allows the customer in the shop, they allow the customer to live in their coach at the same time.

So, Ken, if you folks can allow us access to the shop and our coaches while work is being performed, it would be a big plus.

[tdelorme]

Jan and I owned Foretravel coaches for many years, and I still know a lot of Foretravel folks and read their Yahoo message board. This was posted today and I thought I would share this guys experience at Parliament. MOT is Motorhomes of Texas.

3b. Re: AC not running
Posted by: "John Lang" foretraveller@yahoo.com foretraveller
Date: Fri May 16, 2008 6:32 am ((PDT))

Hi John

This was a frequent/intermittent, almost chronic problem in my new
NImbus. MOT replaced the thermostat/comfort center and sent me on my
way. Problem continued intermittently until Parliament Coach in
Clearwater changed the circuit board in one of the roof A/C units and
tied down all the cables from the A/C units. Since January has not
missed a beat. Parliament did 3 add'l adjustments/corrections on the
coach at that time. Everything was done in 2 hours and they
cheerfully sent us on our way without a penny's charge.

Regards to all,
John Lang
Crossville, TN
07 Nimbus; 07 Cadillac SRX

[phorner]

Jon, very well said. I completely agree. We live full time in our coach, so repairs done right, the first time, is important to us. We do not have the ability to simply drop the bus off somewhere for service.

Also, since this is our home rolling down the highway, essentially with everything we own in it, the safety, security and reliability of the bus is close to our hearts.

My very first priority when selecting a service center is being able to trust that the work will be done correctly and in the same manner as if they owned the coach and were sending their family out in it.

With this in mind, I am more than willing to pay a fair and reasonable price to have the work performed. I expect the owner to make a profit. I want him to still be in business the next time I need service.

Lastly, the real test of any establishment is how they react when the inevitable problem raises its ugly head. Mistakes can happen. Unforseen problems can become apparent as the scheduled repair is being performed.

Any company can look good as long as things always work out perfectly. The best companies go out of their way to remedy these issues in an honest, fair and equitable manner.

It should be simple. Good work performed honestly at a fair price, while treating the customer with the courtesy and respect that they, themselves would like to be treated with.

No reason it can't be a win-win relationship.....

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Since this topic has arisen I checked with a local shop. I did not know if they wanted to mess with coaches since the bulk of their business is trucks.

As it turns out they do want bus business and they are changing their scope to include more than just engine and transmission work.

I know for a fact that the majority of the staff, both managers and technicians have experience in general repair and maintenance so they are capable of handling all of the routine service items such as lubes, fluid changes, filter changes, air springs, brakes, bearings, hub seals as well as engine and transmission work.

They will not do paint or body work. They will not replace windshields. They will not do tires or anything relating to alignments and that includes king pins for example.

I will be posing more questions and have more conversations with them before I post full information and give them a recommendation because I want to know how they will handle repairs to the repairs, access to the coach while it is being serviced. I also need to find out how they intend to support the coach since they have no pit. That means the coach will be raised on the individual wheel lifts thus preventing any access to the coach.

Right now they have no hookups.

Once we get done chatting and they have approved what i will post I will post the information for those who wish to consider alternates to Prevost Service centers or need a service facility in the Knoxville TN area.

If we can maybe we should create a thread that can be printed and carried along with us when we travel that lists information about various service facilities. I already know that this shop is first class and while they are not shy about charging for their expertise they work efficiently and are likely to be less expensive than Prevost. BTW, I have no bad feelings about Prevost, and virtually all my experiences with them have been good, but based on what has been posted here and discussed at rallies it may be a good idea as has been suggested to list alternatives.

[bluevost]

Ted,

I have been to Mira Loma several times for routine maintenance and lean issues, seals, etc. I have never left there feeling disappointed. When I call for an appointment, I have my list ready, and only schedule with two specific techs to work on my bus. I stay with the bus while the work is being performed. One day, two or three days, whatever. I also have a small notebook I use to keep track of what happens between 7:30 and noon break, and from after lunch to quitting. Time and parts are kept on the log. I have no problem if my service guy spends a few minutes helping another service guy, because I know that the other service guys will be helping my guy sooner or later. It all works out on time. Now some people would say you shouldn't have to keep a time sheet of your own, and maybe they are right, but when I get my invoice and the labor hours don't matchup, Prevost has never failed to correct their invoice.

Ken

[BrianE]

Ken has obviously dealt with Mira Loma often enough to specify who he can trust to work on his bus. He has also apparently come to the conclusion that it's wise to log their time. What about the average customer that assumes he will get a good job at a fair price? My only experience at Mira Loma was pretty dismal and included getting my own hands dirty just to get out of there.

By the way, I have no issue with the kids that work at Prevost. The problems are almost certainly training related and consequently point directly at Prevost management. In my case it's been a sad commentary because I have experienced "issues" at each of the 3 Prevost facilities I have done business with.

By the way 2, we purchased our coach at Parliament. The experience could not have been more pleasant. Between the low-pressure sales assistance we received from Steve Mitchell and the efficient service and patient explanations we received from Dan Romero, we wouldn't hesitate to be return customers. Dan incidentally, is the first person I call for mechanical advice. Whether it be house or chassis related, it has been rare when he didn't have the right answer, instantly in most cases.

[Seabyrd]

Thanks for the info and thread please send me the name and contract info for the mechanic and address Larry and Diane Byrd

[Timia]

I saw this thread today and just finished having my bus serviced for an upcoming extended trip to Alaska. I called a service in Buellton, Ca named "R & M" Enterprises, which is a diesel service and general repair, at (805) 688-6969 or 688-2246. He came to my campsite, drained 10 gal of oil, changed all my filters (fuel, oil, coolant), lubed underneath and checked and filled my tires and inspected brakes, hoses, belts, etc, etc,... I was very impressed with the thoroughness and his knowledge of the Detroit Diesel. (One of his favorite engines). His name is Matt Satterthwaite. His mobile rig is impressive and he takes all containers and oil and left over parts. He works on all engine repairs and knows his business. The best part is he is honest and charges a flat $97.00/hour. He charged me for an hour and a half and my total bill came to $156.04 which included Santa Barbara County environmental fees etc. I supplied my own oil and filters. I can't get work on my car done so reasonably. Some of the best money I have ever spent on our bus, except, of course for our POG yearly fee, which is worth every penny! He does work for the Air Force at Vandenberg AFB and has his own business.
Anyway, if you are ever in the Santa Ynez area you can stay at Flying Flags RV park, or somewhere nearby, or stop by his shop, and get a fair deal with a knowledgeable mechanic.
By the way, I am not related to him.
Thanks,
Tim Sparks

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tim,

You say he charged for an hour and a half. How long did he work?

I have a pit, a commercial lube pump, all the tools, stands (for safety, even with the pit) and while I can do a decent job of changing oil, filters, and lubing the bus there is no way I can do the job in less than 3 hours, and usually 5 hours if I am to inspect everything with the attention to detail that is required.

When I was working on my back before I had a pit, the same work took 5 hours instead of three.

[Timia]

Well... it was longer than an hour and a half. I don't know exactly how long it was, however. I was busy eating and passing out a bunch of the largest strawberries I had ever seen to everyone. My wife brought back a couple of flats of these whoppers. I would guess that it was over 3 hours. He was more interested in being thorough than he was in watching his watch. I would have to believe that he is a better mechanic than a business man. I asked him if he shouldn't have charged more and he said no. I gave him more anyway.
He probably didn't do as good of a job as you could have though.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

He probably did a very good job if he did work more than 3 hours. I am slow and detailed because it is my bus, he is fast and probably more efficient because he does that stuff every day. I responded because 1 1/2 hours was way too little time.