Longer Lugs for Wheels

[lloyd&pamela]

Is there a source for longer lugs. Prevost said no. But my lugs do not extend beyond the nuts because of the covers and now the added Balance Masters.

While I was having the Balance Masters installed I was going to have HFI of Atlanta replace all the lugs with longer ones. HFI in Atlanta called Prevost and was told the one on the bus were the stock ones that came with the bus and there were no longer ones.

Is that true?

I was told buy the MVI inspector that the lugs needed to extend beyond the nut to be legal. Mine do not. Thanks.

BTW I like the Balance Masters already. They seem to me to ride smoother.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Lloyd There are many variables here.

What style rims do you have? All aluminum or are the duels insides steel?

If they are the old style with inner and outer nuts, or the new style with just outer nuts.

I am assuming based on your year coach that you have the old style with inner and outer nuts and what you are referring to when you say lug is the inner nuts?

[lloyd&pamela]

Here are a few photos. One shows the lug with the cover mount and the other is a normal lug. All are short and were short before the Balance Masters were installed.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

That is the old style rim and nut.

I think your problem is the hub cap bracket is for the new style rims and the holes in it are not big enough to allow the nut to seat down into the tapered hole in the rim.

[Orren Zook]

Lloyd, you do have a potential failure on your hands there and the DOT here in Ohio would red tag you for those studs too.... not to worry there are several lengths available and you should be able to get them in the Atlanta area without much trouble. Are both the tag and front that short? Would you need 20 of each (left and right) or is just for one axle? Try Georga Brake in Norcross or TNT Parts in Atlanta - maybe Truk has a better contact in that area.

[lloyd&pamela]

Thanks for the call Joe. I will find out who manufactures the hubs. Best to you.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Orren I went out and checked the studs on our tag and steer and they are the same. Same R8 stamped into them and they are just short (1/32) of flush with the face of the nut.

I'll bet if you check yours you will also have the same setup on those axles.

As I explained to Lloyd and as you well know the inner nuts for the duels come in a multitude of lengths. According to prevo there is only 1 length available for those other two axles.

Take a closer look at those pictures and I think you will see that it is the wrong hub cap bracket that is the culprit.

[truk4u]

Hey guys, it looks to me like those studs were intended for steel wheels. The steel wheels are much thinner and if I remember correctly, close to 1/2 inch at the holes. I took off aluminum dual inners this Jan and replaced with steel because of a width problem with my fender flares, but I don't remember the exact thickness. It was quire a bit. The steel wheels are 8.25 and the aluminum are 9.00.

Is it possible at some point Lloyd's bus had steel wheels instead of aluminum?

[Orren Zook]

Those are his fronts or tag studs - no inner nut is visible and the R8 indicates grade 8. Maybe we run nut covers and hub caps because the studs are too short!?! I'll pull my nut covers when I get to work and let you know Joe.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Truk, not the case. I'm tellin ya I went out and looked at mine and it is the exact same situation. The studs are almost flush with the lug nuts with aluminum rims and according to someone who looked into it for Lloyd at Prevo there is only one length available for the steer and tag.

I still say that the holes are too small in the bracket for his chrome hub cap cover because it is for the new style uni-lug rims and is not allowing the nut to seat into the tapered hole of the old style rim compounding the problem of the just long enough studs to begin with.

[dalej]

Joe,

If you look at the photo to the right, it doesn't have the bracket on the stud and is still short. He just needs to get 1/2 inch longer studs.

[truk4u]

Orren,

I knew they were the front and tag, I was using my changing out the wheels as an example of the difference in thickness between steel & aluminum. I will pull one of mine also, I don't remember mine being short on threads.

[truk4u]

OK boys, here's a picture of my front. I can't imagine studs being to short as in Lloyds case being normal. Seems like a safety factor to me..

2632

2633

[Orren Zook]

Just testing you Tom, I pulled my nut covers this afternoon and I also have longer studs like those shown in your picture -and- I have the Centramatic balancers on all wheels.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Maybe Lloyd has bigger nuts, so his studs just look smaller. :rolleyes::D:D:D

[lloyd&pamela]

Robert at Prevost Parts in Elgin is looking into the matter and will get back with me next week. I will update everyone. Thanks.

[0533]

Robert at Prevost Parts in Elgin is looking into the matter and will get back with me next week. I will update everyone. Thanks.
Good morning Lloyd,

I just had my front wheels changed over to the 365 wheels and studs. The Jacksonville Prevost folks gave me back a box of parts front the old wheels, including the studs and nuts. I have a 1998 shell with stock steer wheel equipment. If you need the studs and nuts just let me know, I have enough for two steer wheels. I do not know if they will work elsewhere on the coach.

Bruce

[lloyd&pamela]

Thank you Bruce, I have Roger at Prevost parts looking for the correct studs. Thanks.

[0533]

Thank you Bruce, I have Roger at Prevost parts looking for the correct studs. Thanks.
I would ask if the 1998 shell studs are the same, and check the price as I am sure they are not cheap. My studs have been on the road for 10 years but have only 35K miles on them and looked like new.

Bruce

[lloyd&pamela]

I will ask him. Do you know how long the 98 studs are? thanks

[0533]

I will ask him. Do you know how long the 98 studs are? thanks
I do not have a clue, they are sitting in the bay of the bus over in San Antonio Fl. at Marathon. I will not be there until Tuesday afternoon. I have to believe that Bill Jensen at Prevost would know by heart. Here is Bill's email address. william.jensen@volvo.com

[lloyd&pamela]

The stud sent by Prevost is 4 3/16 over all and 2 3/16 from flange to the end of the large part.

I need the large part about a 1/2 inch longer to fit the nuts, see earlier photos in thread above. Thanks

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Those should be available at any large truck tire service company, truck parts house, or through a truck dealer. I would suspect they could also be found on-line.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Lloyd it looks as if I stand corrected and your studs as our mine are a shorter version.

I still also stand behind what I said earlier about the only ones that are not safe and preferable are the ones that hold that bracket for the chrome hub cover and because that bracket is for the new style rim and is not allowing the tapered nut to seat in the tapered hole of your old style rim.

[lloyd&pamela]

HFI of Atlanta and Parts for Trucks in Halifax both have had no luck and Prevost seems to think there are no others, though that is not the case. I have emailed Bill Jensen and Roger at Prevost Parts in Elgin is still checking. We will be in Quebec in a couple of weeks and hope to have the work done there.

[Jim Skiff]

Here are links for the Prevost Stud information provided by Lloyd.

Prevost Stud Letter 1 (http://www.prevostownersgroup.com/users/BD83DEF1-CF1D-CEE2-5BF432431EE8B2E3/library/files/prevost-stud-letter.pdf)

Prevost Stud Guide (http://www.prevostownersgroup.com/users/BD83DEF1-CF1D-CEE2-5BF432431EE8B2E3/library/files/prevost-stud-letter2.pdf)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I realize the Prevost engineers are smarter than I am but I'm having a real problem with what their letter says and I wonder if others feel the same way.

The rule of thumb I have aways been taught to adhere to is at least one full thread needs to be exposed beyond a nut. That may be an old wives tale, but I have adhered to it. Now we see a letter that says as long as you have 5 to 7 turns that is an acceptable amount of thread engagement. That is on the surface ridiculous. First, it is on our wheels. I can accept having a whole bunch of things come loose on my bus because most things will not create a big problem.

But if my wheels come loose I consider that a serious issue. The range of engagement according to the letter in specific terms is .312 to .438 inch. That is five to seven threads of engagement.

Can anybody tell me if a DOT inspector will allow a truck to pass inspection if the lug nuts only have .312 inches of engagement? Something stinks here.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I do not know if they would allow something that flagrant to pass. I can tell you I know of a large dump outfit out off Niles Mich., Kenny Smith Transport. They have studs that were way shorter than Lloyds and ours on most of the fleet, and it is large 50+ trucks, easy. Those guys crossed both Indiana and Michigan scales on I-94 both ways twice a day for years and still do:eek: I often wondered how they did not get flagged, approximitely 1/4 of the thread on the nut is exposed on their trailers wheels.

I could get the book and see what it says, I'll see if I can dig one up.

I agree with you Jon about that rule of thumb and I would NEVER run a tire held on with only 5 turns on the nut. I also think that 1 turn short, as is the case for Lloyd and I, although not preferable, will not let the wheel go.

[phorner]

I have to agree with you guys. It was my belief that the bolt/stud and the fastener (nut) were to be "fully mated", meaning that all the threads on the fastener had to be engaged.

I would not be comfortable driving knowing that the studs failed to thread fully into the lug nuts, although being only 1 turn too short may be a negligible amount from a practical perspective.

[Petervs]

You guys are making this problem very hard to solve by trying to find longer studs.

All you need to do is machine the nuts down a little until the threads show through. Easy!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Dumb question Peter:

If our lug nuts only need to be .312 to .438 thick so they have full thread engagement why don't we propose to Prevost that they should be buying thinner nuts to reduce weight and cost. With the price of steel, and the extra length unnecessary would that not be a good idea?

[Orren Zook]

You guys are making this problem very hard to solve by trying to find longer studs. All you need to do is machine the nuts down a little until the threads show through. Easy!

How can you keep the nut covers on then?

[lloyd&pamela]

Jon it seems to me from the photos sent in by others, that the nuts they have are considerably shorter than mine.

[Kenneth Brewer]

Pardon me, but is the Prevost statement(s) meant for steel wheels, or for aluminum/alloy ones? For wheels I am familiar with, 'alloy' wheels, cast or forged, have a thicker cross section throughout, and particularly around the bolt hole circle. Also, the wheel nuts are provided with the alloy rims because stock nuts, meant for stamped/forged steel wheel centers, are not to be used. Thicker wheel centers mean less thread engagement than before.

I would suspect, without the impediment of any specific knowledge with regard to Prevost wheels, specs, or written communications, that maybe the wheel rim and nuts have somehow been either assumed or overlooked. I wouldn't think, off-hand, that Prevost supplies Alcoa rims with all their buses?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lloyd's bus has dual aluminum wheels on his drive axle. The bus came standard that way. My original bus also had dual aluminum wheels, and the nuts were not shallow, but were the normal length. I had plenty of exposed threads.

I believe Lloyd's problem is on the steer axles. Again my coaches with aluminum wheels had plenty of threads showing so his problem is puzzling.

Whether the inner dual is steel or aluminum, it is the inner nut that holds the steel wheel (or aluminum one) that apparently has good engagement. I can only assume Lloyd and others may have some hub cap holders located under their nuts, a situation that at one time was not allowed by Prevost. If that is the case they are silent on that issue now, and have apparently caved to the converters that use that type hub cap.