Where to find tires ....

[Ray Davis]

I'm hoping that someone here might have some suggestions. I have spent the last two weeks looking for tires for my coach. I spoke with Prevost and they are putting on 315/80 R22.5 tires on coaches.

It appears that two good choices are the Goodyear G670RV, and the Michelin XZA1 tire. I have tried several places here in Southern CA, and have barely been able to locate anyone who can even get these tires. Camping World (for example) lists both a Goodyear (G291, not the G670) and Michelin, but when I went to purchase they indicated they couldn't get the tires.

So, after two weeks of looking here's the only places that indicated to me they either had tires in stock, or could get them within a day.


1. Prevost - $678 bare tire for Michelin
2. Petes - $565 for Toyo tires (installed)
3. Richard Road Service $674 for Michelin (bare), or $548 for Goodyear (G291) bare

Calls to a dozen other dealers comes up blank.

Does anyone have a suggestion where to get tires? I'm almost at the point where I'm just going to Prevost, and getting it done, but I'd rather not pay that amount. A friend indicated to me he got Michelin's in the $400+ range, but he has yet to get back to me with the installer who did that.

So, I'm hoping I can find something better that $750/tire installed. The Toyo tires came in much cheaper ($565 installed), but I read a couple of threads on the internet where I'm a little cautious.

Ray

[MangoMike]

Hi Ray,

Just as a comparison I bought 2 new Michelins XVA2 for $650 for bare tire here in the DC area (Alban Tire and had to wait 6 weeks until they arrived in stock). A lot of good talk about Toyo, but with something as important as tires decided to pay the bucks.

Mike

Note: I thought the XVA1 were discontinued - although I'm not by any means a tire expert.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ray,

I know this was touched on on the other site, but have you weighed your coach?

That 315 tire is big, and nowadays with the cost of a barrel of oil big is another way of saying expensive. But hey, it's only money right? The down side of having such big tires is it greatly increases unsprung weight which may affect your handling to an extent. The good part about a tire that size is it will not be subject to excessive weight.

Regardless of whether you choose the 12R or 315 I cannot imagine a truck tire dealer incapable of ordering exactly what you want. If they are saying they can't get them that might be code for they don't want to get them.

But lets assume they can't get them. I would go to the nearest charter coach company and find out their tire source (don't be surprised if some of them actually lease their tires) and if that doesn't work do an internet search for tire distributors that handle the brand you want.

[Just Plain Jeff]

There are two sides to this story.

Side one is the Prevost Car side. What they will tell you is that the Prevost coach was designed, tested and supplied OEM with the Michelin Pilote tire. The party line is that the Michelin is THE tire for a Prevost coach. But, they also get all their marketing money from Michelin, so, well, you have to figure that sometimes engineering and money get mingled together.

Hanging around some of the bus charter companies, I see both the Michelin and Toyo tires on Prevost coaches. What I gather is that the Toyo is not quite as beefy a sidewall as the Michelin, but couldn't prove it and wouldn't argue the point at all.

Down here in Florida, where it is very easy to buy Michelin tires, the going price for a tire (installed) was $636 each as of a year ago.

The general rule is that tires are good for about 5 years for coach, no matter the mileage. For high mileage coaches, such as an entertainer coach, those guys get about 100K miles on them before replacement, considering the appropriate rotation (best tires on the front and move them back to the tag).

Most of us really don't use the tires we have very much, so the problem isn't tread depth; it's dry rot, which comes from the inside of the tire out, difficult to detect. And by the time you see the tire rot on the outside, the tire is pretty much shot.

I have no experience or knowledge about the Goodyear tire, not having seen them in commercial use. They may or may not be good.

Many of the Prevost facilities use a tire service and markup that cost to the customer.

Here's a nutty idea: Find a large commercial bus operator not too far from where you live and go see the maintenance guy. Find out where they get their tires and I'll betchya you'll have some new information...but you can likely figure that you'll be paying 565-650 per tire.

Welcome to Prevost ownership!

[Just Plain Jeff]

Apparently Jon and I were answering your post at the same time and both suggested that you contact a local bus charter company.

This is getting sick.

We agree on too many things, except airplanes.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

We agree because we are both blondes with a full head of hair.:rolleyes:

[Jerry Winchester]

Gag me. You guys need to get a real job and quit this mutual admiration thing.

I am interested in how this tire deal turns out as I am about 2 years from having to change my tires. I have a nice set of Goodyear tires now, but will change them to Michelin (unless Bob-00 gets a new coach and MangoMike gets his old one and I get Mike's hand-me-down) :rolleyes:

[Just Plain Jeff]

[QUOTE=Jerry Winchester]Gag me. You guys need to get a real job and quit this mutual admiration thing.QUOTE]


I don't admire Jon, actually, I don't even really like him very much. He just copies everything that I do.

I may have to get a restraining order to keep him from stalking me.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

"I am interested in how this tire deal turns out as I am about 2 years from having to change my tires. I have a nice set of Goodyear tires now, but will change them to Michelin (unless Bob-00 gets a new coach and MangoMike gets his old one and I get Mike's hand-me-down)"

Liberty has its standards. Have you applied for ownership?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

"I don't admire Jon, actually, I don't even really like him very much. He just copies everything that I do."

Poor Helen. I don't know how she can stand it.

[Ray Davis]

Jon, no I haven't weighed the coach yet. I was out of town all week, and now just trying to get going again. The reason I've been looking for the larger tire is:

1. the coach currently has 315/80's all the way around (except for 1 tire which I (mistakenly?) put a 12R22.5 on to replace a tire with slash in sidewall.

2. a phonecall to Prevost they told me that's what to put on the coach

3. (this is a guess here). my coach interior was redone in 1999 and the entire coach (except bedroom) flooring was replaced with tile. I'm assuming that this was a bit heavier than the previous carpeting. The tires on the coach now (1999 tires) are the 315/80's. Perhaps they were put on when the coach interior was re-done?


SO, I had kinda assumed that if the R12 was acceptable, that the 315/80 with it's better load carrying capacity would be better? Handling on the coach at the moment seems to be fine, although I've never driven another coach to compare, but it handles really fine.

So, that's why I started looking for those tires, and that's when I ran into these roadblocks. Several Goodyear dealers told me that there were no G670RV's in my size to be found anywhere in the US. I was looking at the Goodyear, because I thought it would be cheaper than the Michelins, but better than the Toyo's?

I was going to get the coach this weekend, so perhaps I'll be able to weigh it.

ray

[ken&ellen]

I ran them with no problems on my Beaver Marquis and my Liberty has a full set of Goodyears. They give us a good ride and the largest commercial tire ( tractor trailer / commercial bus ) vendor here in southern Va claims that it is the best value & best quality available. I have been seeing ads for tires in FMCA and Motorhome that are formulated to resist dry rot which will extend the tire life. Ken

[Just Plain Jeff]

"I don't admire Jon, actually, I don't even really like him very much. He just copies everything that I do."

Poor Helen. I don't know how she can stand it.


Look at me,
I'm as helpless as a kitten up a tree
And I feel like I'm clinging to a cloud
I can't understand,
I get misty just holding your hand

Walk my way,
And a thousand violins begin to play
Or it might be the sound of your hello
That music I hear,
I get misty the moment you're near

You can say that you're leading me on
But it's just what I want you to do
Don't you notice how hopelessly I'm lost
That's why I'm following you

On my own,
Would I wander through this wonderland alone
Never knowing my right foot from my left
My hat from my glove
I'm too misty, and too much in love

[Jon Wehrenberg]

My only reason for beating that drum about weighing the coach is regardless of whether you need 12R or 315 you must inflate the tires based on the weight it carries.

For example, my old coach required 108 psi on the front axle, 85 on the drive and 70 on the tag. Those pressures came right from the Michelin site and were nowhere near the weights Prevost publishes for tire pressures. I imagine all manufacturers have their pressures posted.

If you get it weighed you also will forever put to rest any speculation about if you need the larger tire. Your coach may be perfectly fine with the 12R tires that it came with. And just to put a fine point on this issue, if your weights are so much that you must have a 9000 pound tire instead of the 7400 pound 12R, then you have a bigger problem than needing tires. You are likely in excess of your axle weights and can anticipate ongoing problems with bearings, brakes, airbags, etc.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ray,

Ignore the guy who is singing songs. He missed his meds this morning.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Ray,

Ignore the guy who is singing songs. He missed his meds this morning.


You told me it was OUR song!

[Jerry Winchester]

I guess that's the problem I face trying to get low enough to own one. But that psychohomolatenetessenceofwhorehousecasinochic interior and paint really gets me going.

[Ray Davis]

Jon, I agree. I will get the coach weight, hopefully this weekend


Your coach may be perfectly fine with the 12R tires that it came with

You may indeed be correct. I have no evidence that there were ever 12R tires on this coach. Original paperwork from Country Coach doesn't say, and I can't find any paperwork anywhere in what I received that told me about tires. I'm only going by what was on the coach when I received it.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Ray:

All kidding aside, if you are going to make the significant investment in tires, the best thing to do is to work it from the ground up.

Weight
Tire specs
Budget

A long time ago a guy put the tire thing to me this way:

You are going down the road at 70 mph in a 25 ton bus with eight square feet of contact with the road. Is this where you are going to try to save money?

If you put it that way, it helps with the decision.

Please excuse our kidding around, you are trying to find out some very important information.

Welcome to POG!

[Ray Davis]

Agreed. Which is why I've been trying to find a dealer which has either the Michelin or the Goodyear G670RV available.

Prevost has tires (Mich XZA1) available at $678 for the bare tire. Camping World indicates they sell tires and have the same tire as above, for $619 installed. This leads me to believe that I can find these tires for somewhere around $600+ installed??

By the time I'm done at Prevost, I'm looking at $750 per tire, installed. I just think I should be able to do better than that.

I just don't understand why these tires seem to be so scarce. I'm going to try a charter bus company, and see what they say, as suggested by others.

ray

[Just Plain Jeff]

Yup, good choice.

You're going to want to have a commercial bus tire, no matter what.

[MangoMike]

Ok,
Forget the blonde beach boys.

Who's got the hotter avatar - JDUB or MM?

Mike

[Just Plain Jeff]

Ok,
Forget the blonde beach boys.

Who's got the hotter avatar - JDUB or MM?

Mike


Depends upon the time of day.

[Jerry Winchester]

Hey, I admit my avatar is pretty homely, but you run what you brung.

[MangoMike]

Let me update my original post.

I have XZA2 (not XVA2) and they still make the XZA1.

Jerry, you win the Avatar battle - congrats.

MM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ray, If I remember right your vintage of coach had 12R 22.5. Double check to be sure. Over the years coach owners tend to try to keep up with the Jones' hence bigger tires and maybe different headlights, tailights, etc.

[Ray Davis]

I'll try to get ahold of Country Coach tomorrow and see if they have records about tires. They did fax me some build sheets on the coach, but it didn't include any specific info on tires.

[lewpopp]

Clue some of in just who is Bob-00? Did I miss something somewhere along the line. Duh--I'm a mushroom, ya know.

Who said the Prouds have all the money. We had better invent some in order to keep up with the lifestyle. Less than a year ago, I put 2 Toyo tires on the front. Not only that, they gave me $150 a piece trade in for the 2. I can look it up, but the net came to something around $700 for the pair. Now you got me wondering. I'll look it up.

[Jerry Winchester]

Lew,

He was parked between you and I at the rally. Has it been that long?

Okay, he was really parked between me and Bill&Jody, but he had that hot..oh never mind.

Does this guy ring a bell?

http://www.prevost-stuff.com/pogimages-5%20163.jpg

[Ray Davis]

Lew,

Toyo tire was one of the tires I did find that was in stock locally. They were going for $565 per tire installed. That's certainly better than anything else I've seen, but I'm still a bit cautious about Toyo. No good reason, other than I'm not familiar with them.

No-one has offered me money for my take-offs, but I guess that will be something to negotiate when I get new tires?

[truk4u]

Ray,
I had Toyo's on two different CC's and had my share of balance problems. I have a friend who's in the tire business, Action Tire in Atlanta, and with his help we changed a few out of round 12R's. Toyo no longer uses their pressure charts and insists the tires be aired to the Coach placard, in my CC's that was 120 lbs. I think I saw something where CC is no longer using Toyo's.

I would stick with the big M if possible.;)

[Ray Davis]

That was a concern with Toyo. Someone else had mentioned problems, and in researching I did come across a document indicating CC didn't recommend Toyo tires any more (something to that effect)

[Ray Davis]

So, I'm going to try to get to a public scale this weekend. The question is how to properly weigh the axles? Especially the tag. I read some pages on the internet last night about weighing, but they were aimed at trucks and didn't address a tag axle.

I would assume that all things considered you'd want to weigh every axle seperately, even better every wheel if you could. But, how do you weigh the tag without the drives affecting it, or vice versa?

[Jerry Winchester]

Ray,

It depends on the scale, but the one I used was rigged up where I could set the front, rear and tag on separate pads, so the weights showed up correct for each one.

If they are weighing it manually, then just weigh each one independantly or do the front, rear, then take the total and subtract for the tag if it was off the scale when the rear was weighed.

The public scale I used was a CAT and they are pretty common around truck stops and they have a website to locate them.

Good luck.

[rmboies]

[QUOTE=Jerry Winchester]Lew,

Does this guy ring a bell?>>

ring ring, I know who this guy is:D He does have a very "hot" bus, or so he tells me. I do remember that our local bus service station, Delta Performance in Greenville, SC, highly recommends a tire that is made in China. This gentleman owns several charter busses and this is all he uses. I can get the name if you would like?

Bob, (that would be BOB-00) put some on one of our coaches rather then buy Michelins and he said he wouldn't hesitate to do it again. I can hear Jon and Mango sighing and thinking "yeh, but he never keeps a coach long enough to find out how the tires wear" :eek:

Mrs.BOB-00

[Ray Davis]

And what would this mystery tire from China be? I'm curious.

FYI, I called Goodyear today. Their website had a page specific for bus tires, which says call their MILEAGE group. I spoke with Debbie there who informedme that their G409 tire is what they suggest on a bus.

She also told me (don't shoot the messenger here), that the 12R22.5 and 315/80R22.5 tires are interchangeable. That one was the Canadian metric version of the other. However, from what I've read elsewhere the 12R22.5 is more like the 295/80R22.5. And it definately comes with a lower load range.

Yep, looked at what I printed last night. At least in Toyo tires, 12R22.5 is equivalent to 295/80R22.5.

I love it when everyone agrees! :confused:

[Jeffery Raymond]

Let me share this much with you:

When we switched to the Michelin tires from the junk that was on our 89, I can tell you that it was a completely different ride. It was smoother; the big tires held the road much better and we were very pleased with what we purchased.

You can't define that by the numbers.

I wouldn't put anything but Michelins on my bus; not a pitch for the company as I think they are overpriced, but in comparison to the Goodyears we had before it was a comparison in ride between a dump truck and, well, a Prevost.

Just checked on our bus to make sure. It's an XLV and we have the 310's, probably an XLI can take the next size down.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Anybody that tells you a 315 and a 12R are the equivalent are likely talking about rolling diameter which is almost identical. That is important because your speedometer is based on the rolling diameter as is the gearing which dictates performance.

But as one who has lifted and changed both size tires I can tell you the 315 is a bigger, heavier tire, and it is definitely wider. The 12R tires I had were rated at 7400 lbs. maximum load and the 315 are rated at 9000 lbs. maximim load.

Since it is unlikely the average owner will wear out the tire before it ages out, the 315 is only justified in my opinion if the coach came with that size, and you need the load rating.

I agree completely with Jeff about Michelins. Too damn expensive, but the bus was built with those tires in mind and I think the ride on them compared to the ride on Goodyears such as some chartered Prevost coaches have had is far more comfortable.

[Ray Davis]

Well,

The saga continues, but in a good way. I had been looking for the Goodyear G670RV because I'd heard good things about them from Kevin, and it looked like a good tire, for about $100-$150 less than the Michelins (at least based upon the price at a site which actually HAD any)

I spoke with Goodyear, and they suggested I call Wingnuts in Chino, and believe it or not, they had 12 of the tires that no-one else could find.

But, that's only part of the story. I snuck off work early today, grabbed the bus, and ran by Prevost Mira Loma. They put my bus up on the rack and I found out something really interesting.

So according to their research, indeed the 92 era busses came with 12R22.5 tires on 8.25 wide wheels. I looked at the drive wheels (they are stamped on the outside), and indeed my drives were 8.25. But when we got under the front of the coach, we were surprised to find the fronts were 9 inches. Checking the tags showed that they were 8.25.

So, I've got 8.25's in the rear all around, which currently have Michelin 315/80's on them (including the inner dual), and 9's in the front, also with 315/80's.

I'm making an assumption that the front wheels were replaced with 9's when the inside flooring was replaced with tile. I'm going to try to find an open scale tomorrow to weigh the coach.

The bad news is this new G670RV tire isn't available in a 12R22.5, nor does Wingnuts carry Michelins.

So, now I'm not sure what to do. Obviously 315/80's fit on this, but as Jon has rightly pointed out, the coach originally had 12R's. Should I keep 315's in the front, and replace the back 6 with 12R's? Or, since I have a source of the 315's in the tire I want, should I go with that?

Maybe I'll know more after weighing tomorrow.

Sheesh, it shouldn't be this hard!

ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

It isn't hard Ray.

If you start at the beginning and get it weighed then all the speculation about tires goes away. Once armed with the right information you can focus on the right tire for your bus.

As far as the wheel size goes, both the 12R and 315 are listed as being acceptable for the two wheel sizes you have. In fact my 315 tires on the drive come from the factory on a 9" aluminum outer wheel and an 8.25 steel inner wheel.

As far as nobody having tires or being able to get them.....I don't think so. Maybe your state is so prosperous tire dealers don't have to worry about sales but where I come from dealers actually want your business and compete for it. I have bought several sets of tires over the years and all I did was make a few phone calls and show up when the dealer had them.

[Ray Davis]

As far as nobody having tires or being able to get them.....I don't think so.

Perhaps if one knows specifically WHERE to call, then it's easy. But, in the last week I called over 15 tire dealers, trying to purchase 315/80 tires, because that's what were on my coach, and at the time, I thought that's what I needed.

Out of that 15, only three could get tires, and I ruled them out. Prevost and Richards Tire Service, because I thought that I could get tires for better than $750 per tire. And Petes Tire Service, because I didn't want Toyo tires.

The other dozen places I called, even places like Camping World, which "said" they carry 315/80 tires then called back to say they couldn't get them. I even spoke to their wholesaler/distributor, and THEY couldn't find them in California.

Yes, when you finally know the right place to look, then perhaps it's pretty easy, but I looked a lot and came up pretty much empty handed. The place I learned about Friday, Wingnuts, carried the Goodyear tires in 315/80. BUT, the bad news is that the Goodyear tire (at least the G670RV) is not approved for a 8.25in wheel, only a 9, unlike Michelin, which Wingnuts doesn't carry. And the Goodyear tire I wanted doesn't come in a 12R22.5.

I have to admit, I would have expected that calling up a place, wanting to spend $3000+ for 5 or 6 tires, would have had people trying for my business. Admittedly I had a difficult time finding truck tire dealers. I'm pretty good at web searching, but there seems to be very few commericial tire dealers listed on the web, or I just don't know where to find them. In all of my searching, I never ran across this Wingnuts, which was recommended by Goodyear directly when I spoke with them. Turns out they have a nice website, but all of my google, yahoo and ask.com searches never turned them up.

[Ray Davis]

OK, finally got weighed. Still some lingering questions ...

Front: 13,760
Drive: 18,240
Tag: 8,560
Total: 40,560

That was with full fuel, 1/2 full water, 2 people in the coach

It seems clear that the bigger wheels were put on the coach to handle the front end weight. 8.25 wheels and tires are rate for only ~7000lb. This comes in very close to that limit.

I would guess that I could simply get 12R22.5's on the rear, as no tire has more than ~4500lb on them.

Does that make sense to mix 315/80 on the front, and 12R22.5 on drive and tag? I assume that is sensible?

Now the dilema. So far the tire dealier I found that seems to have tires has Goodyear, and the G670, which I wanted isn't approved for 8.25 wheels, and doesnt't come in a 12R. So, I would assume (I can find out on Monday) that Wingnuts can get me some kind of 12R Goodyear tire, since they don't stock Michelin.

Seems like I have a couple of options:

1. Go with Prevost at $750/tire, and get Michelin 315/80's all around. Most expensive option, and probably not necessary.

2. Go ahead and put the Goodyear G670RV on the 8.25 wheels? Dangerous? Wingnuts is supposed to get back to me on Monday on whether or not this is even a possibility.

3. Leave the current 50% Michelin tires on the front 9in wheels, and get 6 12R22.5 for the rear (of some brand). I kind of hate to put new tires on the tags (would have rather transferred the fronts), but if the rear is all 12R, then I'd have to get all new tires in the rear.


So, bottom line, at least now I know that I have mixed wheel sizes (9 in front, 8.25 in rear), and I have weight figures to use to make a reasonable decision.

Thanks for all the help. I apologize if I sounded snippy on this, but this tire search has really been a pain in the backside. Luckily it won't happen often.

ray

[truk4u]

Ray,
Don't know where your located, if it's CA, everyone on the west coast with CC's alway bragged about Les Shwab (spelling). 315's can be had here in GA for about 525.00.

Good luck...

[rmboies]

[QUOTE=Ray Davis]And what would this mystery tire from China be? I'm curious.

Ray, sorry, I was wrong--I know all these guys are writing the date and time down that I admitted to this:p Our local bus guy didn't tell Bob about the Chinese tires--the guys out in Phoenix when he went to pick up an H345 that we owned earlier this year steered him in that direction. They claimed this tire is made to Michelin specs but alas, BOB-00 cannot remember the name of them other then to say it was long and he couldn't pronounce it--:rolleyes: If I can find it on one of the pics of the H3 I will let you know.

Debi and the silent but reading Bob

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Sounds like I need to get into the tire buisness. 22.5 michalin or bridgstone 400 give or take a few and off brand 300 max. I have found that the off brands balance better. Never had any quality issues either. Most of us will be removing our tires only half spent because 6 years will come first. If you give me tire sizes I,ll check prices for you all. What are you doing with your take-offs. They are worth 100 bucks a-piece in almost any condition. Also greater mass also means more heat. A low-profile tire while standing shorter will actually go more miles by running cooler because its less mass. My tire guy might be able to network. Let me know. If you feel more comfortable run better tires up front. If you look at Rays axle weights the steer are at 7000lb each, the 6 at the rear are only 4500. Im gonna take my old tires and run them on my dump trlr. until the cords are showing they blow out or a cop makes me change them and not a minute sooner!?!? HeHeHeHeHe

[Joe Cannarozzi]

OK folks I just got off the phone with my tire guy. 315-80 michelin INSTALLED tax included $580 and hell get them next day. He tells me all his charter bus coustmers dont use them because of cost. They are using Kumho 315-80 $365 installed. Also avalable next day. He will let me know Mon. about the 12-22.5michelins. Also no sooner did I say 315-80 he told me 9inch rims only for this tire size. Ray I wish I would have read this thred sooner.

[Ray Davis]

Joe, I'm just curious where you are located. I couldn't find
Michelins (315/80's) for under $600 + installation. Finally had
to break down and pay that due to time constraints.

Probably better to purchase tires out of California.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Ray, Chicago, we are a couple miles north of 1-80 in Illinois at the first exit west of the Indiana boarder. The tire shop is Sergios tire 1-773-406-2954 its 5 mins. from the Halsted exit off I-80 South holland, Ill.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Just so there is no confusion, 315 and 12R tires have virtually identical rolling diameters and both are acceptable on 8.25 wheels as well as 9.00 wheels.

If larger tires are installed (as in Ray's case) they do not increase the carrying capacity of the axle because other components are sized to the rated axle weight, such as brakes, bearings, air bags, etc.

[dalej]

This is my take on the tire issue...
From the mouth of service manager at Fort Worth Prevost, don't put 315's on the drivers with 8.25" wheels, they will end up kissing and build up heat. So I only run 315's on the steer and then move them to the tag.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Dale,

Your coach came with 12 tires, and not the 315 size. His advice is probably sound because it is not only the width of the wheel that has an impact, but the amount of offset on the wheel. I think you came standard with two 8.25 aluminum wheels on the drive.

On coaches that come with the 315 tire such as mine we have 9.00 aluminum wheels on the outside, and 8.25 steel wheels on the inside, and 315 tires at all locations. Newer coaches have 365 on the steer and tag and 315 on the drive.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Is anyone currently using a wirless tire monitoring system? We are using Pressure pro by DORAN mfg. www.doranmfg.com and this is one of the best options on the bus. The sending unit is nothing more than a oversize valve stem cap that incorporates a pressure guage wirless antenna and small battery, one for each tire, including the toad. It gives me an audible alarm, marks tire position and pressure automaticly when any tire goes 10% down. We run 100psi in our tires and being a trucker for 25 years I can tell you there is no way you would even notice a tire so slightly down on pressure by sight or feel.To us this is great insurance and also a great sence of security. Unless we directly drive over something it almost completly elimanates the risk of blow outs. If your torn on how much to put out for tires this could be had with savings from going with lesser brands. This is not too much money, easy to install and pays for itself the first time it goes off. When I leave town Ive got almost everything thats important to me in this world, Debbie my grandchildren my dogs, my 04 HEMI, and having been through blow-outs and sitting on the shoulder on an interstate with traffic zipping by at who knows how fast it has become my intent to never put my family in that situation again.

[Petervs]

Here is another old thread, maybe worth updating.

Ray, I know you just got a new coach, maybe you need tires already ?

I just bought 8 315/80R22.5 Michelins. After a lot of shopping , and being frustrated more businesses were not interested in my pile of money, I think I ended up with a fair deal.

I went to Les Schwab in Springfield Oregon. They do all the work for Marathon. They know their stuff on tires and Prevosts. Less that $700 a tire installed out the door. No sales tax in Oregon helps. With fuel prices rising tire prices rise too. This one store bought 220 of this size tire so they would have a good stock on hand. Everywhere else I called they said they would have to order them in.

Which brings me to the next issue brought up earlier in this thread. Speedometers. I have observed that most coaches before about 1998 have had the speedometers replaced, obviously because the original VDO mechanical looking but actually electronic units fail. These had a seperate trip odometer window as well. They get an electronic signal from the transmission computer to display the speed. They are very easy to program if you need to adjust them to make them read correctly.

The new sppeedos are a newer design and have an electronic odometer, with the trip odo in the same window, and the numbers are printed a little different, and the bezel is a different shape.

I bought a replacement speedo ( $250 from Prevost, found one for $30 on eBay). But I did not like having the tach look different, so I ordered a matching replacement for $100. Now that is all nice, but the ODO does not show the correct vehicle mileage.

I have rigged up a device that is presently rolling the miles onto my new speedometer at the rate of 84 mph. It will eventually read the correct coach total. Eventually being in about 7 weeks. Brian has asked to run his to the correct setting too, when mine is finished. Perhaps others would like to do the same?

You can also send the unit in to the factory through a speedo shop, and they will then set it electronically for $125. I thought that was an absurd charge for a simple programming job, that is kept secret only to reduce the false odo readings.

As they say, your mileage may vary...no pun intended.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Peter et al,

I sure agree about the speedo reliability. There are some messages here for buyers of coaches and current owners.

The clear message to buyers is that if you are looking at mileage on the odometer as to the coach condition it is likely wrong. My 87 stopped recording miles but intermittently would run in spurts. So buyers beware. Having said that however, I still think a coach that is 10 years old and has 150,000 well maintaned miles is a better coach than one the same age that has 50,000 miles. I think miles are only good as reminders of when to change the oil.

If the coach has Pro Driver that is recording the mileage, as is the DDEC (I think). An owner or buyer can rely on that.

I have a new speedometer to install in mine, maybe Peter can help me with setting it if I promise not to do a search and repost his assertion he was going to run his tires until they were ten years old.

[dalej]

Good post Peter, I sure enjoy reading post like these.

[Petervs]

Hey Jon,

Just a final note on the tires, my old ones were made in September 1997, and I replaced them in February of 2008.

None of them were ever removed from the wheel during their entire life. I would say it was a successful run.

They all had lots of tread left, a couple had minor rubber checking on the sides. They ran about 65,000 miles.

I agree with your comments on the ODO being good to remind about oil changes, but the Pro Driver is not a foolproof way to know the coach mileage either. If you open the pro driver up, remove the memory battery for a few minutes, then reinstall it, it will reset the Pro Driver ODO to zero. You can then reset it to match it to the dash ODO.

The DDEC brain keeps track of miles also. But my DDEC was replaced a while back and the new one started at zero when the coach had $70k miles or so.

The very best indicator is if the owner(s) have kept a detailed maintenance logbook with dates and events in chronological order. That will corroborate the truth. Just like we do with airplanes.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

When my old bus odometer quit I did not immediately replace it. So what I did was use miles from the truckers mileage between cities book as the distance travelled and added those values to my log book.

(For those that can't wait to get all over the fact that I have a log book, it goes back to when the bus was used for business, and it was to satisfy the IRS requirements......so there!)

When I did replace the speedometer, I noted it in the log book and added the miles listed in the log to the zero reading, like we do if the tach is replaced in a plane.

But I like your idea of putting the mileage value in the new odometer. I will not wait 15 plus weeks however for it to get where my mileage is, but will just add 200,000 to the value. Tell me how you did it.

[dalej]

Jon, did I read you post right about the IFS. Did you say you drove 300k in your 87 bus? and 30k in your 97?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If I did I misspoke. 300K total miles. I have about 50 I added to this one, and I did about 250 in the first one.

[dalej]

No, that just seems like a lot of driving. We have logged close to 97k on ours in almost 10 years.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Until I became unemployed in 2000, we used the coach to do trade shows for our former company as well as travel to do seminars for our largest customer. Our customer had about 80 sales offices around the country and we would spend a day with the sales reps, and then generally do a seminar or presentation relating to the products and how they related to the various applicable plumbing codes with the reps.

The company we owned also did about 30 trade shows related to the campground industry, and I used to do most of them, I carried the entire booth and its contents in the bay of the bus or our Grand Cherokee that we towed.

While we ended up traveling into every single one of the 48 contiguous states and taking advantage of the work we were doing to get us to places we would not have ordinarily seen. We had little time to ourselves to enjoy the bus except on weekends. We spent about 13 to 16 weeks in the bus each year, not all at once but in various length blocks of time, with the longest being gone for 5 weeks and a typical trip around 5 days to a week.

When it didn't make sense to run the bus, such as a one day seminar 400 miles away I would use the plane. During that decade I did a lot of travel and when I sold the business to my daughter the first few years down here in TN we rarely used the bus or the plane. I think one year we put 30,000 on the bus and that really was too much. Now I think we are around 12,000 a year, and this year may end up being a little more.

[Darl-Wilson]

"If the coach has Pro Driver that is recording the mileage, as is the DDEC (I think). An owner or buyer can rely on that." Jon's quote

I purchased the Silverleaf VMSpc (http://www.silverleafelectronics.com/?q=node/6) that has a whole variety of information on sensors, gauges, AND a speedo with an odometer. The device reads from DDEC and indicates the mileage on my coach is about 2,000 miles less than indicated on my dash odo. Jon, does that mean, to a certainty, that my odometer mileage is not to be relied on? If that assumption is correct then would it be best for any POGer buying a used coach to use this device to make sure the mileage is correct?:confused:

[Darl-Wilson]

I will bring this device and a couple of adapters to POG VI in May if anyone wants to check their odo or any other items, like codes, etc. Let me know if you have any questions or check out the Silverleaf website. (http://www.silverleafelectronics.com/?q=node/6) My laptop will also be available for those lacking a portable computer.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Darl,

I have not heard of a coach odometer reading more than the DDEC or Pro Driver. It is usually the other way around because the speedometers our vintage coaches had did not always count distance traveled. They would cease functioning for short periods and they eventually just stop registering miles.

But I think you might have a CC dash. Different animal I think.

The new Prevost replacement speedo that replaces the original uses an LCD mileage display, and it replaces the electro mechanical original.

[Darl-Wilson]

It is a CC dash Jon. Having spent more than a few days in the new and used car and RV business I too have never seen a speedo with more than actual miles unless it had been replaced with a used unit. Maybe!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The difference could just be in the calibration that CC did when they built it.

When I replaced the speedo in the other bus it had to be calibrated. The calbration value Prevost gave was quite a bit wrong, so on my first trip I think it indicated 20 or 25 mph at 55. I knew from experience what my speed was from the tach so it was no big deal to have a bad readout for the trip. The cruise still worked and is independent of the speedo anyway. I eventually got it pretty accurate through trial and error. I assume the interstate mile markers are fairly accurate and I was able to go fifty miles or so and still have the tenths read out within a few tenths of the one when I first started checking.

I still use the Pro Driver as the mileage because it has the maintenance reminder built in. It makes life simple.

[Petervs]

Jon,
The gizmo for getting the odometer to read right is simply a signal generator, hooked to a small electric motor. The leads are connected to the new speedo, and the number of pulses it provides at the spinning speed is programmed into the speedo so it reads 84 mph while running. Obviously the speedo is also connected to a battery. Then you wait. Wait some more, wait even longer. Depends on how many miles you need to add. basically 84 mph is about 2000 miles in a 24 hour period. I need to rack up 143,000 miles so it is about 2 months. Today it reads 18,000 or so. I am patient.

Ans there are no mechanical parts in the new speedo, so there is no wear happening.

[Ray Davis]

Aren't the electronic odometers settable, i.e. there's some magic way of just setting the correct reading?

[Petervs]

Ray,
There is some way to just set them, but the industry makes that extremely difficult because they do not want to make it easy for people to set them back at resale time. There is some proprietary hookup and software involved. Heck, if a teenager can crack an I-phone this is probably not hard by comparison. I just decided to use the brute force approach to set mine.

One would think there should be a one time set option when you buy a replacement unit, and the number should only get bigger, but that is what VDO wants $125 to adjust.

I know it only takes them 5 minutes to set it and I dislike paying that much money for 5 minutes work. After all, the guy is not performing surgery on me....in that case I might spend that kind of money for 5 minutes work.

[Ray Davis]

I didn't realize they get $125 to do that! Yikes. Well, two months ain't too long to wait ... :eek:

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

In the olden days, like at least 30 years ago, a gal that wanted to change the odometer reading could do it herself. The guys didn't do stuff like that very often.
Then the law rode in and said hey, STOP THAT it's not nice. So everyone thought that was a good idea, especially the guys that didn't know how to do it when they wanted to sell their used wheels.
Ahaa, it's still exists, believe it or not. Maybe Roger will back me up. It's now gone to the "specialist" mode, wherein there are roving specialists that can be called into a used car dealer to, make the appearance of the vehicle match the odometer. :eek: