low house battery

[Will Garner]

We have been hooked to AC for 2 days and this is the 2nd time the "Susie voice" has indicated a low house battery. Is there some way of preventing this? Please help. Many thanks.

[Ray Davis]

So, this could be indicative of a real problem, or an issue with Suzie. I guess the first is to determine if your house batteries are really low.

If they are low, why aren't they charging? Depending upon how you are wired, you should be charging via the interverters, or via separate converters.

If the batteries are up, and chargers are working, then it's a "suzie issue"

[Darl-Wilson]

Will, check the gauges for input and charge. "Suzie" can be turned off if that is the problem. I had a similar situation and found that my battery terminals were corroded. That is simple fix with some bicarb of soda and a little water. Apply corrosion protection to the posts and cables after cleaning the connection. This stuff can be purchased in any auto parts store or heavy grease will work. Make sure to turn off the inverters while working in this area and remove the negative cables 1st. More than likely your problem is something simple like this rather than a major problem. Post again after you have checked it out and we will try to get someone here to offer more advice. Good Luck!!

Darl

[Ray Davis]

If you don't have bicarb available, Coke does a pretty fair job! :eek:

[Will Garner]

Thanks one and all. The problem has been identified by two of the Parliament Coach staff here on site. The converters/chargers (75 amp each) are dead. The ceremony to lay them to rest is tomorrow at 8:00 AM. I made a trip to Buddy Gregg in Knoxville as he had the only 75 amp replacement within a 60 mile radius. Thought that could get me to home base but not today. I had help doing the install and when it was plugged into the duplex receptical - it went up in smoke. Camping World has two 60 amp converters/chargers in stock so I'll be on their door step at 8:00. Oh wait, that is ceremony time. Such is life. They took a hike on me so I'm just returning the favor.

I was supposed to be doing some work today that is time sensitive but that too will have to wait for another day. I am typing this by a battery powered super bright white LED light.

Again, thanks to all. We will be leaving "Susie" powered on so she can keep us posted as the house battery voltage drops over night. I ran the big motor to charge them up. The park has a no generator rule so I had no choice but to run the big motor. But officer, my generator is not running!

Later ...

[Ray Davis]

The park has a no generator rule so I had no choice but to run the big motor. But officer, my generator is not running!

Good deal that you found it. It's not clear that running your generator would charge the batteries either. I would assume that it simply provides AC to your chargers, which are dead, regardless.

So, running the big motor is most likely your only recourse at the moment. AT least it should be straight forward to replace the converters. There are much better converter chargers available today, than were available many years ago, so you'll be better off in the long run.

Ray

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Ray our Hickox has the ability to charge the house, in a pinch, off of the gen. alternator.

We have a 12 volt equalizer switch that we can throw that will give house juice to the gen. battery when it is low or dead or allow the gen. alt. to charge the house if needed.

Will couldn't you just buy a small automotive battery charger and hook it to the house batteries to get you by? Did you figure out why the new gear cooked??????

[Ray Davis]

Will couldn't you just buy a small automotive battery charger and hook it to the house batteries to get you by? Did you figure out why the new gear cooked??????

Great idea Joe.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

That had to be a real sinking feeling when those new chargers went up in smoke. I'm very curious as to why, and surprised too, especially concidering all the support he has to feed off of out there.

[patty lou evans]

I just recently purchased a 1985 prevost marathon coach and am having similar problems. We have been told that our electrical system is outdated and that we have one shorted out battery in the bus and therefore battery charger will not work until this battery is replaced. we are now in a two week waiting period for the replacement battery. we are currently located in an rv park and plugged into 50 amp and we're having to run our coach motor to charge batteries,etc... should this situation be as it is? Or, are we just not understanding the workings of this coach's electrical system?

[dalej]

I just recently purchased a 1985 prevost-patty


Patty, If you just got the bus there are somethings you want to look at. I would find out about the life of the chassis and house batteries. It they check out using a battery tester (load tester) then you can start looking else where.

we're having to run our coach motor to charge batteries-patty

Why is there a need to run the Detroit?

Sounds like you should break down what is going on...I mean the gen-set should be running to charge the house if the inverter isn't working. Sounds like your plugged in.

The Detroit charges the chassis batteries, but how do you know they need charged it the engine starts.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Patty....whoa!

First of all I think in order to answer your questions we need to know a lot more, and what concerns me is that the best way to communicate might be for you to post pictures. Don't be insulted. I am just trying to help someone very new to this navigate through your systems so we can understand what is going on.

Specifically, what batteries need a charge? Are these your house batteries or the chassis batteries?

Please post a photo or post the name and model number of the device that charges your batteries. If you have someone telling you it is outdated (don't believe that just yet) it sounds like you have CONVERTERS. Look carefully to see if that is what they are, who the manufacturer is, the model number and if you have more than one.

If you have a device that is an INVERTER provide the same information please.

The depth of questions your original post raises is extensive, but if you are willing to be our eyes on this issue I think we can help.

Out of curiosity, what is this specific battery that takes so long to get and why is only one being replaced? Anybody that tells you only one battery in a bank needs replacement is unlikley to be giving you other good advice. (I hope I did not just insult a close family member.)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Patty,

I don't have any motive other than for you to get some good help. You really should come to the Spearfish rally because there are a bunch of folks that will be there that will help you immensely with learning your coach.

If you do not learn your coach you will always be behind the eight ball.

[garyde]

Hi Patty. You have two different sets of batteries. One set operates the Chassis and the other set operates the Interior Coach. Each set, when they have been tested and test bad, should be replaced as a group. Not just one. Unless they are all new and one has failed, also only confirmed by pulling them out and testing each one of the set.
I hope this puts you on track.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Patty,

Adding further to what Gary said, if one battery in a set has failed the reason for failure should be determined. Are the batteries old? Are the batteries being charged improperly?

I think you coach came originally with chassis (bus) batteries set up exactly as they are today, charged by the engine alternator, and possibly a converter installed battery charger for those times when connected to shore power or the generator is running.

The house batteries are also charged when the engine is running, but when parked they are charged through shore power or the generator. The chargers used at that time were actually converters which functioned as chargers, but provided DC power to the low voltage house circuits such as lighting. Supplementing the converters there was usually an inverter that merely converted battery power to 120 volt alternating current so you could watch TV or run small appliances when not connected to shore power or when you did not wish to run your generator.

Today's coaches are set up different electrically and there is much more automation in the electrical system than you likely have, but if you are set up as I presume it is a very reliable and workable system. What is important here is that if you have the system I suspect you have part of your problems apart from a bad battery may be a lack of understanding on how to operate the system to fully use its features. Don't feel bad....we had a system as I describe and my wife had a hard time fully understanding how to turn the knobs and switches.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Ours is an 85 but was built with an inverter not a converter. Being a Marathon wouldn't it be the same. I thought only CC did that crap.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Joe, do you really believe yours was never modified? That's why it is important to understand what Patty has and what devices are in the coach. That vintage of coach was not originally delivered with inverter/chargers. The battery charging was via converters and the inverters only created 120 VAC from battery power and did not charge the batteries. I believe the shift to inverter chargers started around the early 90's.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I am sure (absolutly without a doubt positive) it never was but I do appreciate your concerns and your willingness to be helpful as you always are with your barrage of relevant questions:o

[Jeff Bayley]

Regarding having to start the coach to charge the batteries, whether these are the house batteries or the chasis battteries, you could get fairly decent charger that has 2amp, 10amp and 25 amp setttings and just plug that into the 110 shore outlet next to your 50amp RV outlet and run an extension cord to the batteries in question. I keep one of these on board all the time as a back up.

As a side bar, I've failed to start my Aqua Hot once a month to keep it maintained and now it won't fire. I think there's a part that needs to have the oil or was cleaned off of it I was told. I know there's a bunch of info on here how to fix that. Don't know if there are any diagram's but if someone knows where the Aqua Hot info I need is within this site and can save me the search time, thank you. Jeff@skincarepro.com

[dalej]

http://www.prevoman.com/Pages/Webasto/Webapage1.html

Thank's Mike!

[patty lou evans]

This coach was purchased 7-3-08 with brand new house batteries, Deka gel filled. They currently have none in stock and one has been ordered out of factory in PA. We're currently in a holding mode awaiting the arrival of this battery. And,yes; we're having to start our bus engine and then start our generator in order to have power to house systems. Will inform you of the results after battery is replaced. The coach is a 1985 Marathon Prevost, it contains 4 house batteries and 4 engine batteries. All new. It has a Vanner battery charger and an inverter. The battery charger is a 50-20 amp. we will be having the charger checked, also. We thank all who have responded and would appreciate any other thoughts any of you may have. Patty Lou Evans

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Hello Patty. Thanks for that update. Those are important. There have been many with MPD experiencing sleepless nights due to posts of folks with trouble without followup;).

I am curious. While you are at a campground plugged in what components are not working that will work if the generator is running instead:confused:

Also I could be wrong but if you shut off the master for the chassis batteries I don't think you would need to run the bus or worry about the chassis batteries.

If your house is 12 volt and that is where the bad battery is you could remove it now and run the house bank on 1 less battery till the new one shows up.

Is this your first bus? Ever owned an RV before this?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Patty,

We still lack a lot of information (and so do you), but I have some ideas and in order for your problems to be resolved it is important for as much information about your coach as possible to be made available.

I'll start with two simple observations, neither of which may be correct in your case, but it is important that you are alert to these facts.

Gel cell batteries are fine for coaches, but your coach was not originally equipped with them. What has been their biggest benefit is that they are a no-maintenance battery. They are susceptible to damage of two types. Over charging will ruin them. This is an excellent site to learn about gel cell batteries and their charging protocols.

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Using%20a%20deep%20cycle%20battery %20as%20a%20starting%20battery

They are not tolerant of higher voltage charge rates so if the Vanners are starting out with a 15.5 volt bulk charge it might be damaging to the batteries thus explaining the shortened life.

Also they are not tolerant of heat. Dpending on where they are located that may or may not be an issue. If they are near the engine, even if the charge rate is properly adjusted they will not last.

By your response I am assuming the Vanners are converter/chargers. I am also assuming the inverter is not a charger. Before your new batteries are installed I urge you to test the Vanner or access the operating manual and learn its charge cycle. Further, if it is as high as I suspect then either reduce the voltage, or switch to flooded wet cell batteries or AGM.

Don't hesitate to wear us out with questions, and come to Spearfish.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Patty,

Where are you located. There may be a knowledgible POG member near you?

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

This must be how it is at the 911 call bureau, you get a call for help, without enough info to be of any use to the caller. You hope they will give out one more piece of information before its too late. Tough job!

Come on Patty. Stick around for a dialog. Don't just hit and run!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Patty,

More comments for you to mull over. In your first post you said your were told your system was outdated and needed to be updated.

I am fairly certain that if you install new gel cell batteries you will be replacing them in another month or two. I am also fairly certain that if you pay what will be serious dollars to modify your electrical system to bring it up to the current technology you will still "cook" your batteries unless what ever is installed is set up specifically for gel cell batteries.

If you smelled the odor of rotten eggs when your battery failed you can take what I have previously said to the bank. It is the gospel.

I tried to find information on line about your Vanner chargers. I couldn't, but that does not mean they are a bad thing. It does mean however that if you do not have the Vanner charger operating manual you need to find out from Vanner if it is possible to adjust the charging protocol on the chargers so it is suitable for a gel cell battery set.

I am also concerned that damage may have already been done to the remaining batteries such as internal gas bubbles that will compromise their performance or life. If I were you I would give serious consideration to using flooded wet cell batteries in lieu of the gel cell until you decide if you wish to modify the coach. It will be a serious investment if you do choose to go that route and it will not make the coach worth a penny more in resale.

[garyde]

I have not read anywhere where Gel filled batteries are a good choice for Coach batteries. Patty, you might want to read about Glass Matt Batteries by Lifeline,
http://www.prevost-stuff.com/LifelineStory.htm

Your charger is probably designed for water based batteries like Jon has described, and would need to be replaced to be able to use Gel or Glass Mat batteries.
The folks who installed the batteries should have known .

[Judi Brown]

We are having problem with house batterys overcharging. We have had to replace 2. Swelled up. What should we look to replace to stop this.
JB

[Joe Cannarozzi]

You need to give more information Judy. What year is your bus, what type of batteries are they and if they are wet cell are they maintence free, what is charging them.

[Judi Brown]

It is 1991 H340, by Liberty. I think they are maintence free , as no caps on top. My husband put 9 gel batterys in when the first one swelled up and we were waiting for 8 D to come in and no problem. Put 4 of the big batterys back in and one swelled up. He bought 2 when had to replace last one,but
don't want to put extra in until problem solved. Would it be our inverter.
JB

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Well you have 2 big things in your favor. You have a Liberty and a call to them will bare fruit for sure. They will be very helpful troubleshooting and be able to tell you how the bus was originally set up and where that charging rate was originally.

You also have Jon who will undoubtedly chime in as soon as he sees you are having issues.

I think you are correct to wait and get more info before moving any further.

Be sure to post up the results.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Judy,

I don't know how your Liberty is set up, but if you have followed the posts on this thread you know you have to make sure your batteries are being charged properly. If your gells are swelling they are seeing heat, too much voltage or both.

Tell us about your inverter or charger and we can go from there.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Judy,

To add to my previous comments and for the benefit of everybody here, your coach may or may not have been a good candidate for gel cell batteries.

But, not that you have them it is imperative that you make sure they are being charged in a way that meets their requirements. You will have to do some detective work to be sure your charging system, which includes the bus alternator your inverter, charger, or converters is charging the batteries so as not to damage them.

If this is confusing go to the article that is on the POG website about Prevost Electrical Systems. It tells you more than we can cover here, and it will be presented in greater detail by Truk and me in Spearfish. The short version is your batteries, both house and chassis require a charge rate and or voltage that is consistent with their particular requirements. Going further, whoever installed your batteries should have known this, should have verified you coach was set up for a specific type of battery, or should have adjusted it if possible to be consistent with the batteries that are installed.

Some charging systems are not adjustable. If that is the case with yours, and the charge is inappropriate for gel cell batteries you might as well plan on replacing them with lead acid or AGM assuming the charge protocol is OK for them.

Tell us specifically if you have inverters, converters, an auxiliary charger for the chassis, and what brand or model they are. There is bound to be someone on this forum that has the same equipment and can advise if they are suitable for your batteries. Also tell us where your batteries are installed in the coach. This may have nothing to do with the charging, but everything to do with an environment that is too hot for your gel cell batteries. Some gel cell batteries will pop open at a sustained 130 degrees.

Your problems, and those of Patty are identical so the more both of you reveal the easier it is to zero in on the solution.

[garyde]

I'm trying to visualize 9 Gel Batteries for your Coach Am I reading this correctly?
If this is correct, how did you wire them together? Can you also indicate the type, and size of your inverters.