Trip Coburg Or.To San Antonio Fl.

[0533]

Hello All,

I finally picked up my new coach ( 99 Marathon) in Coburg and headed back to Florida. I want to thank the POG memebers who wanted to help me get started, especially Jim and Gary. I left the Marathon Factory after a 3 month upgrade on March 14th. The trip went pretty smoothly with a few mouments of complete stupity along the way. I might have faired better if I had taken notes about the operation of the coach before heading out on the road. On my first night I stayed in Grants Pass. Hooked up the coach to the 50 amp power and relaxed feeling pretty good about the first day on the road. I woke up in the middle of the night to the generator running, decided to let it go as the Wx outside was pretty nasty. The next morning I investigated the problem to find that I had never turned the main breaker to the coach on. It took me about two days to figure out where the windshield washer button was. I was blinking my way across America instead of using the inner button. Even looked in the bay door to see what was wrong before I finally figured it out.

The trip took me about 3600 miles, averaged almost 7 MPG (6.97 Avg.) at 70 mph, used the cruise control a lot. never used any oil, I mean none at all (30,600 miles on coach) . The Prevost side ran great. I did make a few conclusions about dry camping at Wallmarts etc. I decided that it was cheaper to stay at a RV park, rates in the BIG RIG guide book for campgrounds where about $22 to $37 and in many cases never saw anyone at these fine locations. The reason for this decison was based on the amount of diesell fuel that was needed to operate the Genset when it came on in the early hours of the am. to charge up the house batteries. At $4 plus X's the hourly burn rate X's the total hours did not make sense after a while verses a campground.

I used my Pro Drivers computer to log my trip, fuel comsumption etc. and noticed that I was adding a fair amount of extra fuel beyond the total fuel burn that The Pro Drivers Computer was showing and assumed it was the Genset.

Fuel Prices: The least expensive was in the West, with Florida topping out at $4.11, I decidecd it best to lock the fuel doors after a few $650 fuel stops. While I was driving I liked to calculate the saving and distance covered in my Prevost vereses my boat. If I could cover 70 mph on 7 gallons verses 12 mph on 10 gallons, not bad.

Travel: I hit some interesting wx. Hail in Salt Lake, snow storms in Wyoming, saw some neat country sides, took some back roads, made some hairy U-turns to head in the right direction, but overall very satisfied with the Prevost lifestyle.

Had a few questions about the operation of the coach, both from the Marathon and the Prevost side of things.

1. Prevost: After a full day of running and when I was entering the RV park I noticed that the steering would get a little stiff a slow speeds, and made a squeeking noise when I turned the wheel, it did not do this in the morning when I started out on the road. There are no leaks and nothing looks out of the ordinary inside the D/S bay door where the steering box is.

2 Had a few mysteries with equipment: My spotlight/camera did not work even after it had been tested and was operational at the factory. It is both a camera and spotlight, original equipment that was used to see both forward and backward and to view the obstructions above the coach. have a small problem with my slide out, but think I have figured this out and it is being solved as we speak.

3. One of my invertor readout displays would somtimes display an odd series of numbers and letters when I would either unhook or hookup to shore power. I would reset the buttons and the problem would be solved. It never interfered with the operation of the invertors, Genset.

4. The frig was cold at the factory when I tested it in November, made ice and looked a good as new. It was cold when I left Coburg , but as the days passed it seemed to be getting less cold, no ice but water in the door. I had a lot done inside the coach, floors sanded, headliner replaced and think the coils might be dirty or possibly a leak in the refrigerant. I'm betting on dirty coils.

All in all it was a good trip. The coach is in San Antonio Fl. with Joe Stefanczuk the service manager having a few odds and end addressed.

Regards,

Bruce

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Bruce, looks like your first outing was very successful with Not Many issues, and mostly minor at that. Isn't this BUS STUFF the greatest.

I too found out after the first two days of driving, the button at the end of the turn signal stalk, IS NOT THE WASHER OR CRUISE SET BUTTON, it flashes the lights to those helpful truckers along the road. I guess Peg can quit flashing the truckers as we pass by them now, cause I found the Flash lights button. :p ;)

I told Tuga that everyday I am in the bus, I find new things I need to do, or maintenance that I need to take care of, as well as New Nooks and crannies that I can store stuff in.

I guess this excitement stuff sounds funny from Jon's point of view, but when I get 80 years worth of experience like he's got, all this stuff will be real simple and then I will know everything too . :D

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary, Every one of us gets experience just after we really need it.

How do you think I got to be hands-on with all these things?

[0533]

Bruce, looks like your first outing was very successful with Not Many issues, and mostly minor at that. Isn't this BUS STUFF the greatest.

I too found out after the first two days of driving, the button at the end of the turn signal stalk, IS NOT THE WASHER OR CRUISE SET BUTTON, it flashes the lights to those helpful truckers along the road. I guess Peg can quit flashing the truckers as we pass by them now, cause I found the Flash lights button. :p ;)

I told Tuga that everyday I am in the bus, I find new things I need to do, or maintenance that I need to take care of, as well as New Nooks and crannies that I can store stuff in.

I guess this excitement stuff sounds funny from Jon's point of view, but when I get 80 years worth of experience like he's got, all this stuff will be real simple and then I will know everything too . :D
I just about wore out that dam button, even made the assembly loose from trying to make the sprayer work. Truckers started honking their horns at me after a while. I pressed it so hard the drivers air seat gave out. Actually the seat had been removed to do the floor and someone had crimped the quarter inch lines when they reinstalled the drivers seat. I used my significant skills and trouble shot this problem without the need for POG intervention, in other words it was an easy fix.

By the way, Texas is one long state, and the trip across 287 from Amarillo to Dallas was interesting.

I learning something everyday and its been great so far.

Thanks,

Bruce

[0533]

Bruce,

I have only some guesses about the power steering. First, check the fluid and make sure it is OK, pink and at the right level. The noise may be as simple as the sound hydraulic fluid makes as it passes through the various internal components. Others may experience the noise. I may even have the noise but just have blocked it out of my mind because it is normal. If the wheel seems sluggish it relates to the RPMs. A little higher RPM and it should be less sluggish. It is not a good practice to turn the wheel while sitting still. If you have to do that, help the coach a little by picking up the tag. I suspect you have a very heavy front end and your steering is really working.

After driving all day I do question why your genset would even start. I don't know the loads on your coach and it may be OK, but it just seems your house is using a lot of power or the house batteries may be puking.

You may have dirty coils, but all they are likely to cause is the refrigerator compressor to run longer between cycles.

You do not say what type refrigerator you have, but before I started worrying about freon levels, I would check for the proper operation of the condenser fan and the evaporator fan. I would make certain the refrigerator is running. I am not trying to be a smart aleck, but the control may be getting hung up in the defrost cycle. That might be tied in with the loss of battery power so I would not rule that out.

Buy tools. You will need them. Either that, or start developing a list of preferred service personnel for every device and system. Treat them well.

Congratulations. Once you get past the few problems you are really going to enjoy your coach.
__________________
Jon
1997 Liberty XLV Elegant Lady / 2005 H2 Hummer with round tires for now

Jon thanks for the post. I had to square away this thread and get the two together.

first. I tried to use the tag axle lift as often as possible, and did try to be on the move when turning the wheel. I have not checked the oil level and will do so.

There is not to much weight in the front I think. There are no Air conditioning units up front ( RVAC units in the two back bays, wonder how much power these use??) there is however a large slideout tray with a stainless box under the front bumper and the Howard active steering gear.

Frig. It is an Amana side by side. i will check into these excellent thoughts on this subject.

Genset: It comes on after about eight hours of dry camping. I do however have everything on, testing the systems etc. I mean everything, from the air/heat to the lights, no conservation on this trip. The batteries are all new AGM's and they worked well based on the invertor bulk verses charge info on the main screen for each invertor.

Tools: I got a big red tool box with the coach, lots of spare parts, but they forgot to give me the skills to go with each tool. I like your idea of having someone along, or a pit stop crew.

Thanks again for your great ideas.

Bruce

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Aaah, an Amana.

I know more about one of those suckers than I ever wanted.

In the following order are the things I needed to do to make mine work and to avoid having to get a new one and go through the agonizing grief of putting on new panels and refinishing one.

First I did have a freon leak. Take the cardboard off the back and look at the joint where the line goes into the evaporator coil. If you see traces of oil it has corroded and may have leaked. I ended up putting in a new evaporator coil.

Within a few weeks it was intermittently cooling and not cooling. I did a complete leak check and it was not the joints at the evaporator coil, but the evaporator fan that had quit working. I bought a new one and that made it work great.

About 2 months after that it was acting up again. By accident I realized the condenser fan, down the bottom rear was working only when jarred. That was likely happening when the evaporator fan was acting up and quitting. I found it only by accident because I was trying to check power at compressor connections and accidently hit the fan and it started running.

FWIW all parts are available on line or through a local appliance parts place. I don't remember the prices. I do have a spare condenser coil fan. If you are coming to TN rally I can let you have it if yours is bad. You can go on line and see the exploded views of the refrigerator and all the parts that are available. Maytag owns Amana and the service of it is fairly easy once you pull it from its location.

[Ray Davis]

Bruce,

If you're running your AC or heaters via batteries while dry camping, then I guess I would expect your batteries to not last more than 8 hours.

First thing I would check is how long does it last without AC/heating? With "normal" lighting and appliance use, you should easily go about 24 hours without needing the genset. There's been a few times I've parked for a couple of days, and generator didn't come on.

Ray

[0533]

I ran everything off the batteries, I guess they did well considering the load. I got about 8 hours off them under these conditions while camping. It was very cold and the heat was turned up, including adding the wabasto, the tv's the sat system, frig all of it.

Bruce

[Kevin Erion]

Bruce, We had a 99 Marathon, 545 and had the top invertor display scramble at times. Give me a call and I can tell you what I learned.
714-342-8588
Kevin

[0533]

Bruce, We had a 99 Marathon, 545 and had the top invertor display scramble at times. Give me a call and I can tell you what I learned.
714-342-8588
Kevin
Thanks Kevin for the info on how to get rid of this problem. Some marathon invertor screens displays inside the coaches would scramble when there was any type of transfer of power to and from shore, gen etc. Kevin said that he was told by Marathon to exchange the ribbon cables to the display on the offending invertor in the bay so that the ribbon that goes to the screen in the coach is going to the screen on the unit in the bay. This seems to solve the problem. He also warned to be sure to remove all power sources to and from the invertors before making the swap.

Bruce

[Jon Wehrenberg]

More proof that as our rallies get large enough we need to schedule converter specific seminars to teach owners the stuff that is not in the owner's manual.

Ideally these would have the converters as seminar leaders, but if the converters do not want to participate our members who have had experiences with specific devices or systems could lead the seminars.

This would be a case where the converters would get a free pass to show their coaches right Jim?

[garyde]

Hi Bruce. I had my steering wheel freeze up after stopping for 10 minutes to check in at a RV Park. It was the first or second night out after purchasing my coach. Best to leave engine running unless your turning off for the night. High idle. The freeze up only lasted a minute or so but it was challenging.

[0533]

Hi Bruce. I had my steering wheel freeze up after stopping for 10 minutes to check in at a RV Park. It was the first or second night out after purchasing my coach. Best to leave engine running unless your turning off for the night. High idle. The freeze up only lasted a minute or so but it was challenging.
Hi Gary,

I would characterize my noise as a slow speed tightness when turning, only when I have been running all day, and only at the end of the day, when coming off a ramp turning into a park. My low speed idle runs about 600 rpm's not sure if this is a correct idle. In the morning there is no problem whatsoever.

I also wondered what role my fatigue might have played in hearing and feeling these noises. After 4 or 500 miles you start to hear noises. I found myself hearing noises when I am alone. It comes from flying by myself on long legs for business years ago. I would listen for unusual noises and if they were not there, I invented them. While driving through Alabama on this trip I had to pass at least a dozen mobile homes being delivered to there new owners. On one occasion there were three in a row, all huge double wides split in half. There was a large backup behind the convoy of mobile homes, mostly made up of motorhomes. I decided that I needed to pass, and went out in front, headed for the ruff side of the passing lane and stepped on the pedal, as I passed the second truck I thought that I had scraped the Zip Dee on the edge of the roof overhang. I of course had to look in the mirror, and convinced myself that the Zip Dee was bent. It of course was not, and in fact was just the wind from the plastic wrap on the mobile home fluttering in the wind as I passed close to it. I had to uphold the law that a Prevost's must lead the way when others stayed behind.

I did have a small issue when I left an RV park. I normally put my foot on the brake, lightly, release the parking air brake then place the coach into drive, This morning for some reason I put my foot on the brake, placed the coach into drive then released the parking brake. For a full second or two the coach seemed locked in place unable to move, I even had to add power to get it unstuck. It was like I still had my parking brake on.

I also noticed after a long leg, several hours that when i would pull into a truck stop the idle would be slightly erractic for a few minutes, hunting for idle. It would settle down after a few minutes.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If it feels like you parking brake is still on, even after you released it the chances are the pads or shoes are sticking to the drum or disk. This is not uncommon, especially if the humidity is high or you have been running in rain.

Rather than try to overpower this condition, just go from drive to reverse. The slight backward motion when it drops into reverse is all it takes to release everything.

[0533]

If it feels like you parking brake is still on, even after you released it the chances are the pads or shoes are sticking to the drum or disk. This is not uncommon, especially if the humidity is high or you have been running in rain.

Rather than try to overpower this condition, just go from drive to reverse. The slight backward motion when it drops into reverse is all it takes to release everything.
Thanks Jon, when are you planning the Prevost Conversion How to TV show. I think it would be a hit. It might be a limited audience but really nice group of people.

[phorner]

"If it feels like you parking brake is still on, even after you released it the chances are the pads or shoes are sticking to the drum or disk. This is not uncommon, especially if the humidity is high or you have been running in rain.

Rather than try to overpower this condition, just go from drive to reverse. The slight backward motion when it drops into reverse is all it takes to release everything."

Be VERY careful trying to overcome this situation by simply over-powering it. Liberty has advised me that they have seen axles break due to this.

This can occur, as Jon has said, if the bus sits for a while after the brakes have become wet due to rain or excessive moisture.

Liberty suggested that, should this occur, to engage and then dis-engage, the parking brake a couple of times, which should resolve the problem.

Glad to hear that you had a successful journey. Your bus was one of the ones that we were considering before we bought ours, and I'm looking forward to seeing it in person some day!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Bruce, I'll bet every single owner, regardless of years of experience or type of coach can teach us all something. A lot of stuff that we know comes about because of an experience and how we dealt with it, usually self taught, often by accident.

If someone wanted to make a real "owner's manual" all that would be necessary would be to comb through every post on this and the p-stuff site and catagorize the tips and instructions that have been posted.

The brake release thing is nowhere in any manual or instruction that I have ever seen, but I'd bet almost every one of us has had that condition, and my way of dealing with it came about by chance many years ago and I have used that method ever since. I can think of hundreds of tips to give a new owner that will save a lot of time and embarassment. Little things like turn off the OTR air or generator or Cruise Airs temporarily when leaving a hard surfaced road onto a dry dusty dirt road. Or how about pull relay 76 in the rear if you do not want the brake lights to come on everytime the Jake or the retarder is engaged?

How many of us learned the hard way to fire up the Webasto routinely to avoid problems with the nozzle? I still have not seen any Prevost or converter manuals advise to weight the bus and using the axle weights to get the correct tire pressures from the tire manufacturer pressure charts.

Or how about release the parking brake on the toad before driving?

[0533]

"If it feels like you parking brake is still on, even after you released it the chances are the pads or shoes are sticking to the drum or disk. This is not uncommon, especially if the humidity is high or you have been running in rain.

Rather than try to overpower this condition, just go from drive to reverse. The slight backward motion when it drops into reverse is all it takes to release everything."

Be VERY careful trying to overcome this situation by simply over-powering it. Liberty has advised me that they have seen axles break due to this.

This can occur, as Jon has said, if the bus sits for a while after the brakes have become wet due to rain or excessive moisture.

Liberty suggested that, should this occur, to engage and then dis-engage, the parking brake a couple of times, which should resolve the problem.

Glad to hear that you had a successful journey. Your bus was one of the ones that we were considering before we bought ours, and I'm looking forward to seeing it in person some day!
Hi Paul,

You probably rejected my bus because the brakes stick all the time. Thanks for the important advice. I new it didn't feel right, but never would have considered this situation one that could cause this type of potential damage. If you don't ask questions you will never get the answer.

[0533]

Bruce, I'll bet every single owner, regardless of years of experience or type of coach can teach us all something. A lot of stuff that we know comes about because of an experience and how we dealt with it, usually self taught, often by accident.

If someone wanted to make a real "owner's manual" all that would be necessary would be to comb through every post on this and the p-stuff site and catagorize the tips and instructions that have been posted.

The brake release thing is nowhere in any manual or instruction that I have ever seen, but I'd bet almost every one of us has had that condition, and my way of dealing with it came about by chance many years ago and I have used that method ever since. I can think of hundreds of tips to give a new owner that will save a lot of time and embarassment. Little things like turn off the OTR air or generator or Cruise Airs temporarily when leaving a hard surfaced road onto a dry dusty dirt road. Or how about pull relay 76 in the rear if you do not want the brake lights to come on everytime the Jake or the retarder is engaged?

How many of us learned the hard way to fire up the Webasto routinely to avoid problems with the nozzle? I still have not seen any Prevost or converter manuals advise to weight the bus and using the axle weights to get the correct tire pressures from the tire manufacturer pressure charts.

Or how about release the parking brake on the toad before driving?
Funny you mention the air conditioner issue, moving from pavement to gravel and dirt. I have two RVAC units in the bays. I stopped at an RV park in the BIG RIG book in Rawlins Wy. it was not very nice, but they were red dirt and gravel sites, The next morning I had a lot of fine dirty dust in the coach, not a nice feeling. I think I collected it from that overnight using the heat pumps at full blast.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Or how about pull relay 76 in the rear if you do not want the brake lights to come on everytime the Jake or the retarder is engaged?

Jon, can you tell me your thoughts on why you wouldn't want the traffic behind you to know you were slowing down, even just with the Jake Pressure?


In other words, what is your reason for pulling the 76 Relay so the brake light does not come on, when decelerating?

Also is it the same relay in my 01 XLII? I would hate to disengage my electric toilet by accident, instead of the brake lights? :eek: :D

Gary S

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary,

The Jake or retarder will engage anytime you lift from the throttle. And the brake lights will then come on. That is fine if everytime you are lifting from the throttle you are braking, but if you are on the interstate and you or your cruise control lifts from the throttle only to maintain a given speed because you are going down a barely perceptible grade you will drive those behind you nuts because they will think you are riding the brake.

If you want to know how truly disconcerting this can be, follow another coach that has not pulled that relay, and that has the Jake or retarder engaged. After a while it will either annoy you or piss you off.

[Ray Davis]

Do you run with the retarder/jake all the time? My jake is two position and it seems that in the low position the brake lights do not come on.

I tend to leave the jake off, unless I'm in a place where I'll need it. I may be wrong, but I've felt if it comes on with every lift if the accellerator (and even on cruise as you mentioned), that I'm losing MPG because of braking that isn't needed?


Ray

[0533]

Do you run with the retarder/jake all the time? My jake is two position and it seems that in the low position the brake lights do not come on.

I tend to leave the jake off, unless I'm in a place where I'll need it. I may be wrong, but I've felt if it comes on with every lift if the accellerator (and even on cruise as you mentioned), that I'm losing MPG because of braking that isn't needed?


Ray
Hi Ray,

When I left the factory they said to leave it on at all times (unless there are local restrictions) either on low or the high setting. I left mine on all the time, and on high when I was going up and down the higher elevations, felt that I needed it to slow down on the long grades, even shifted down w few times when the Wx was nasty. My overall fuel economy for the 3600 mile ride using the Detroit Pro drivers unit was 6.97 mpg. I tried to cruise at 70 when the conditions allowed and set my cruise for this as well, but of course there were lots of hill climbs and smaller roads along the way.

Jon would have hated following me. maybe this why some of the long haul drivers were passing me even when I was going 70. I think one of them was Jon, he was holding up a sign that said "Relay#76 you newbie".

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I drive at 62.5 mph all the time. Roger will attest to that. Those brake lights may not be particularly annoying during the day, but in the dark they sure are to those following you.

[phorner]

You guys drive in the darK???

[0533]

I drive at 62.5 mph all the time. Roger will attest to that. Those brake lights may not be particularly annoying during the day, but in the dark they sure are to those following you.
Well, the first thing you need to do Jon is get off the road at dark, you should be enjoying a cocktail and kicking back during those hours. I hate driving at night and really need to get off the road for that first beer.

Bruce

[Jon Wehrenberg]

That shows how screwed up you guys are.

I can't wait to start driving so I start out at 2:00 or 3:00 AM. It's dark then also, but since you guys apparently need your beauty sleep you would not know that.

[0533]

That shows how screwed up you guys are.

I can't wait to start driving so I start out at 2:00 or 3:00 AM. It's dark then also, but since you guys apparently need your beauty sleep you would not know that.
I'm just coming in from a night on the town at that hour, grab some beauty sleep for a couple of hours and hit the road, break for a long lunch at a swank cafe while someone is fueling my coach, checking my oil the windows. Role into a camp ground around 5, greeted by a pit crew who hook me up while I break out the champagne. The help gets the grill hot and life is good. After all why do we own Prevosts if we can't be pampered a little.

[MangoMike]

Ray,

I leave mine on full all the time (relay pulled) as I feel that I need some immediate braking I won't have time trying to fumble for that switch.

0533 I'll need to check out your pit crew in TN. They sound perfect.


Mike

[0533]

Ray,

I leave mine on full all the time (relay pulled) as I feel that I need some immediate braking I won't have time trying to fumble for that switch.

0533 I'll need to check out your pit crew in TN. They sound perfect.


Mike
When I was returning back into Florida got into a convoy of buses heading for Daytona including the Playboy Bus and the Girls Gone Wild Bus. I guess I was living Vicariously for a brief moment. Guy can day dream a little can't he.

[phorner]

That trip from Coburg to San Antonio sounds like quite a shake down cruise. Ours was only from San Antonio, FL. to Port Saint Lucie, so we're still learnin'.

The first real trip will be to Sevierville in a couple of weeks..... can't wait!

[Orren Zook]

I did have a small issue when I left an RV park. I normally put my foot on the brake, lightly, release the parking air brake then place the coach into drive, This morning for some reason I put my foot on the brake, placed the coach into drive then released the parking brake. For a full second or two the coach seemed locked in place unable to move, I even had to add power to get it unstuck. It was like I still had my parking brake on.

sometimes the valves (quick release and/or relay emergency) can be a little slow too, did you have enough air up?

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Jon, I would appreciate your showing me in TN the #76 Relay, so I can decide if I want to pull it or not? If you were driving behind me some evening I wouldn't want you speeding past 62.5 just to pass me up, cause of my brake lights? :D


Now another newbie question. How much actual braking do you guys feel when your Jake brake works? Mine doesn't seem to pull down much at all?

I could really feel the braking when I was in my 39' Discovery so I knew it was working, but honestly, I don't feel much of a brake at all, and I have the control set on 1, which I think is the lowest setting, meaning the most braking?

Is it possible my Jake isn't actually working? I know the brake lights come on, when I release the throttle cause I see the brake light on the dash come on, but is it possible I am not getting the braking I should be getting?

Thanks

Gary S.

[0533]

sometimes the valves (quick release and/or relay emergency) can be a little slow too, did you have enough air up?
Good question. I am afraid that I might have been distracted making my exit out of that park. I do remember that it was cold and damp and I was on gravel.

[0533]

Jon, I would appreciate your showing me in TN the #76 Relay, so I can decide if I want to pull it or not? If you were driving behind me some evening I wouldn't want you speeding past 62.5 just to pass me up, cause of my brake lights? :D


Now another newbie question. How much actual braking do you guys feel when your Jake brake works? Mine doesn't seem to pull down much at all?

I could really feel the braking when I was in my 39' Discovery so I knew it was working, but honestly, I don't feel much of a brake at all, and I have the control set on 1, which I think is the lowest setting, meaning the most braking?

Is it possible my Jake isn't actually working? I know the brake lights come on, when I release the throttle cause I see the brake light on the dash come on, but is it possible I am not getting the braking I should be getting?

Thanks

Gary S.
Hello Gary,

I noticed the same thing about the Jake Brake, and thought it was a weight difference issue, my plastic coach was a much lighter coach, less HP. and seemed to react faster. As for my air, the coach seemed to be up where it should be at all times. I sometimes when getting ready to go down a long 6% several mile grade, would cycle the jake brake from off to high just to test it, and it seemed to react better, or at least I felt better about.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Gary S, and Bruce, do you guys in fact have the Jake Brake, or do you have trans. retarders?
If it's the retarder I don't think the braking action is as great as with a full Jake set up.

[truk4u]

Gary,

Watch to boost gauge as you toggle between low and high and you can tell if it's workiing.

[0533]

Gary S, and Bruce, do you guys in fact have the Jake Brake, or do you have trans. retarders?
If it's the retarder I don't think the braking action is as great as with a full Jake set up.
Hi Jim,
Here are some of the specs on my coach from the original build sheet.

All Prevost conversions include: Detroit Diesel Series 60 Engine,World Transmission,Jacob’s Engine Brake, DDEC III Pro Driver Electronic Controls.

[0533]

Gary,

Watch to boost gauge as you toggle between low and high and you can tell if it's workiing.
I admittedly did not watch the boost gauge for this, only when climbing hills etc. I did however sometimes open my side window to get some fresh air when entering small towns along the way and could hear the brake working, it was not very loud, of course it was 45' away heading backwards.

[MangoMike]

If you have a concrete barrier next to you as the Jake Brake is engaged you can definetly hear it engage. (drivers window ajar).

I've had both the transmission retarder (liberty) and the Jake Brake (marathon) and I've found the retarder much more reponsive. The downside is you have to keep an eye on the trans. oil temp. gauge.

Mike

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Gary S, and Bruce, do you guys in fact have the Jake Brake, or do you have trans. retarders?
If it's the retarder I don't think the braking action is as great as with a full Jake set up.


J.C. I have the Jake not the Transmission Retarder for sure. No stick on the right hand side of the steering wheel to control the speeds of the TR.

Jim, I have to disagree with you on the braking capability of the Retarder vs the Jake. I drove a 99 Liberty two years ago when we first started looking, which had the actual Retarder, and man it really stopped the bus, and you could control how much it stopped you with the 6 speeds (?) on the retarder. Where as the Jake system slows you down, it is nothing IMO, to the stopping of the Retarder. I wish I had the retarder. I would feel much better about stopping this monster. But I am learning to handle it.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Thanks for the comments that's interesting.

[Kevin Erion]

I agree with Mango, I had a 99 Marathon with the transmission retarder and now an 01 Marathon with the engine brake. The retarder has more stopping power but you can easily overheat the transmission fluid if you are not careful, I will take the engine brake over the retarder all day long!

[0533]

I agree with Mango, I had a 99 Marathon with the transmission retarder and now an 01 Marathon with the engine brake. The retarder has more stopping power but you can easily overheat the transmission fluid if you are not careful, I will take the engine brake over the retarder all day long!
I have the jB. and when going down long steep grades I found myself shifting down manually at times to keep the coach from running beyond a comfortable speed even with the second click of the JB. button on. It works but it is not the best option for slowing down in my opinion.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Just a few comments, some are opinions.

A Jake on an 8V92, as set up with 2 cylinders per bank has a maximum of 220 HP rquivalent braking. It is not equal to the force of a retarder.

However, in my opinion a Jake is a no cost effective means of slowing on a hill, and in my previous bus I could go down a steep grade and if the high setting slowed the bus too much, and the low setting not enough I could switch back and forth between the two to maintain the desired speed.

A Jake brake is most effective when the RPMs are higher, hence Orren's idea of downshifting makes perfect sense.

A retarder will heat the transmission fluid rapidly. It is taking the oil pasing through the transmission and making it work hydrauilically in the retarder section before entering the water to oil intercooler. The fluid temperature we see on our transmission temperature gauges is what we see immediately prior to the intercooler, or when it is at its hottest having done the work of retarding. This is not the temperature of the transmission fluid in the transmission.

However, while the transmission is not necessarily seeing overheated oil, those high temperatures do haven an impact on the life of the oil itself. The ATEC computer limits the discharge oil temperature to 300 degrees, and if it reaches or is about to exceed that value, the amount of retardation is diminished to maintain the fluid temperature at or below the 300 degree value.

It is my opinion both the Jake and the retarder require the driver to exercise control. The retarder however also requires the driver to try to limit the temperatures via whatever means is possible, and that is not only more work, but it requires a lot of attention in hilly or curvy roads.

The retarder switch can be left on, and the seven position stalk can be in the off position and the retarder will still engage proportional to the amount of braking force being used. The driver needs to monitor the transmission oil temperatures under hard braking even when the lever control is in the off position. The retarder has a significant impact on improving braking distances.

But I would take a Jake brake any day of the week.

[garyde]

Gary, Does your jake brake work when your cruise control is on? That might be a conflict.
Jon. My retarder works great and I've never had it higher than 228 . I can't see where replacing the trans oil sooner is any big deal. Instead of 50000 miles, replace at 25000 miles.
Kevin, how are you? How's those girls?
I wouldn't mind having both the retarder and the jake but I would not give up the trans retarder. It stops a 50k bus very quickly.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Gary, Does your jake brake work when your cruise control is on? That might be a conflict.

GaryDe, you asked if my jake brake works when my cruise control is ON? Do you mean when the switch for the cruise is on, or when I am actually using the cruise to maintain speed going down the highway?

My reply, seems kind of silly when I read it again, BECAUSE, the Jake Brake is never actually on, IF, the cruise is on and set, cause I am going down the highway at a maintained speed.

GaryDe, clarify your question for me please. I really don't think my Jake is functioning? Maybe someone can jump in and take a test drive to verify what they think.

Is there an electrical connection for the Jake, or just mechanical. Maybe I pulled a Relay and shouldn't have? :o :D

[Ray Davis]

Gary,

Our coaches are similar in year, and I assume similar in function. I can definitely feel the jake, but as others have mentioned it's much more effective when used at higher RPMS.

ON my previous bus, after a DD service, it turns out my jake wires were not connected into the motor, and believe me, going down any hill without a jake is a scary thing.

If you can't find a hill to verify, try to find a tunnel, or concrete wall nearby that you can open your window and listen. You should definitely here AND feel the jake.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary,

If you use Transynd AND YOU HAVE A RETARDER your fluid change interval is 75,000 miles or four years. Apparently Allison considers that harsh duty.

If you are using Dextron the interval is one year or 12,000 miles whichever comes first.

I am surprised at the temp. It bears some checking to learn if on the XLII shells the temperature is monitored at the retarder outlet side or some other location. Those of us that have a retarder and watch the gauge can see it literally sweep across the gauge if we are working the retarder or brakes. I take action by either turning off the retarder or dropping iits setting down a little to limit mine to a self imposed 230 degree limit, but I know for sure I can run the temps way past that point.

[Ray Davis]

If you are using Dextron the interval is one year or 12,000 miles whichever comes first.

Jon, do you mean that the fluid should be changed at one year, or simple checked and topped-off? I had just yesterday spoken to Prevost service guy in Dallas, and he's telling me 50,000 on Dextron, and up to 100,000 on Transynd. Didn't mention anything about interval.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Allison has a fliud change schedule. For example, the factors which affect the service intervals are whether you have a retarder, transynd or dextron, or the type and size of transmission filter.

A coach without a retarder, using other than transynd, and having a 2" gold seal (not high capacity) filter should have its fluid and filters changed every year or 25,000 miles whichever comes first.

That jumps to 150,000 mile fluid changes, 75,000 mile filter changes (high capacity filter) or 48 months, whichever comes first if the coach has a retarder, or 300,000 if it has no retarder.

http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/changeinterval/questions.jsp?model=4000&voc=MH&type=4k

You can use the above site to determine your service intervals.

The retarder is clearly considered to be subjecting the transmission fluids to harsh duty.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This is another good link to save:

http://www.allisontransmission.com/servlet/DownloadFile?Dir=publications/pubs&FileToGet=OM3349EN.pdf

[Ray Davis]

Thank you very much. I had planned on waiting till after Pahrump for a full service. I'm thinking sooner than later, now.

Ray

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

My vote is in favor of the Jake. Descending a steep grade the retarder would have the greatest effect, but then looking at the temp gauge going off the scale, the retarder becomes ineffective as the oil goes beyond the boiling point. Now you are on the brakes to keep the temp down. Over several years I noticed low mile coaches that were advertised with rebuilt transmissions. The only thing that caught my attention was that they all were equipped with retarders. I know you all with retarders wont want to hear this but a Jake is a set and forget it, and with the retarder you must monitor the trans oil temp or face future maintenance problems. IMHO Sorry
Ed

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I stated before that I prefer the Jake, but in defense of the retarder there are some very important benefits.

First, I use the second position and when descending even fairly steep grades it manages the speed very well, and the temperature usually stabilizes at around 220. If the grade is excessively steep however, using the brakes in addition to the retarder will drive the temps up, so I end up turning off the retarder, using the brakes to get below my target speed, and then reengage the retarder. That limits temps but wears out some brake pads.

But the good point is that by leaving it on all the time, if I have to make a hard stop, the retarder is proportional to the brake. The harder I press the brake, the more assist I get from the retarder and that is a considerable benefit.

Ed's comments about premature failure are unlikley related to the retarder. Allison had some issues with clutch material in the earlier world transmissions and the clutches wore to such an extent the transmission filters and pan would actually get loaded with that material. The newer versions of the world transmission allegedly have addressed this problem. The clutches are serviceable, but the cost of a factory rebuild is so close to a field rebuild it just makes sense to replace the tranny.

[garyde]

Gary. On my previous Country Coach Lexa w/ the 3 stage Jake Brake, if the cruise control switch was in the on position, the Jake Brake would not work.
Jon. i guess what I am saying is I never have allowed my Trans temp to exceed 228. I usually reduce speed to 55 mph at the top of a grade and maintain this speed thru using the retarder and intermitant braking. I have the transynd oil.

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

I believe my point was,that some drivers were not aware of the consequences of over heating the trans oil with the retarder. Allison was aware that the recommended C-2 oil was not handling the heat these transmissions were generating in "normal" operating conditions. This is why the "Transend" development, better lubrication at higher temperature limits. Ed