Water Tank Sanitizing ?

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Couldn't find a better to place to ask this question?

The 160 gal fresh water holding tank, does anyone sanitize the tank?

If so, how often do you sanitize, and what is the proper procedure for this?

New bus and all, I am trying to get everything in order for our first two week outing, the first of April.

Thanks in Advance?

Gary S.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

About every six months to a year I add about 2 to 3 cups of Chlorox to my tank while I am filling it so it gets mixed pretty good.

I then open all taps until I get a strong smell of chlorine from each, including the shower and toilet.

I let it sit for about 1/2 hour, drain everything, and then refill with fresh water. I then run water through all taps again to flush the lines. I also change filter elements when I do this.

I have no idea if this is the way to do it, but I do know that it is likely going to kill any bugs that are in the system. Despite "sanitizing" like this we still bring water from home that we know is pure for coffee and ice cubes, etc.

[dalej]

Gary,

We bring along RO water when we travel, for drinking.

For what it's worth, I have added clorox once since we have owned ours. If you are going to let your bus sit, which you had better not, for two to three months at a time, It's a good idea to just drain your fresh water.

If I have drained our water, when gettng ready to leave home I fill our tank and while filling I purge all the water lines and smell the water that is coming out. Don't forget to purge your sprayer at the kitchen sink, it's usually the most neglected line. It usually has had hot water used in it last and it will go sour.

[phorner]

The ratio that you want is 1/4 cup of chlorine bleach for every 15 gallons of water. Jon must have done the math 'cause that comes out to roughly 2 1/2 cups for a full 160 gallon tank.

The contact time for the disinfectant mixture is based on the concentration, in this case a couple of hours ought to do it.

I avoid drawing this mixture into the hot water heater, as it is somewhat corrosive. Probably not enough to be a concern, but I just can't bring myself to do it while looking at what has to be removed to replace the hot water heater some day.

[dale farley]

I agree with the other comments. I have also seen written procedures that said to add the chlorine, fill the tank about 3/4 with water and drive a short distance to let the water thoroughly wash the tank. Then drain and rinse the lines and tank.

I usually do mine about once a year, but we don't drink the water from the tank. Of course, we do brush our teeth and shower, so I guess it makes sense to keep it sanitized to some degree. On the other hand, I've never heard of anyone getting sick from showering from their fresh water tank.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Thanks for all the replies to my Santizing Water Tank. All very helpful.

Has anyone used the Thetford Fresh Water Sanitizer? http://www.thetford.com/Home/Products/ChemicalsCleanersHome/FreshWaterTankSanitizer/tabid/133/Default.aspx

The reason I question the clorox method, is will it damage other in line water filters or fittings, and if it actually leaves that much of a taste to it, is that the solution? Sorry just full of questions.

I found this on the Internet and thought I would pass it on: The way I Sanitize My RV's Fresh Water Tank.

"A friend and fellow full time RVer, Bill Randolph told me how he uses something other than household bleach which works well for him and I also started using it. I think is worth passing on to you. Before he retired, Bill spent twenty years in the swimming pool business. He's an expert when it comes to sanitizing swimming pools and spas and says the same rules apply to RV fresh water systems.

Bill uses Chlorinating Concentrate (Sodium Dichloro-s-Triazinetricone or Sodium Dichlor for short). Sodium Dichlor contains 62% available chlorine. Compare that to household bleach which has something close to 3%. One pound of Sodium Dichlor is equal to 8 gallons of bleach! Also, household bleach contains other stuff, including a lot of salt, and that salt and other stuff is what causes the bad taste and why you have to flush the fresh water tank so well.

Bill says it takes only 1 teaspoon of the concentrate per 100 gallons of water to initially sanitize the system. Remember to run water through all the faucets. After that, just a half teaspoon per 100 gallons with each refill will keep the tank fresh.

Like most of us, Bill travels with a near empty tank to reduce weight so when he arrives at park where he plans to stay for a while he drops a half teaspoon of the concentrate into the fill tube and fills his water tank. This insures the system will always be sanitized.

This is not a case where more is better. This stuff is concentrated and it's best to use just what Bill recommends.

Because Chlorinating Concentrate is so highly concentrated you only need to carry a small container. And it is dry crystals so there is less chance of a spill. However, because it is so concentrated it is highly corrosive so you do have to be careful how you store it and use it. You should be able to find Chlorinating Concentrate at any pool supplies or spa store. Bill says there are several brands to choose from."

See you guys soon.

Gary S

[Ray Davis]

Like most of us, Bill travels with a near empty tank to reduce weight so when he arrives at park where he plans to stay for a while he drops a half teaspoon of the concentrate into the fill tube and fills his water tank. This insures the system will always be sanitized.

So do I understand correctly, that in this case he puts the stuff in, and uses the water with it in? Unlike Jon's (and others) method where they sanitize, and then rinse, and refill?

Ray

[tdelorme]

Gary, listen up. This is one of those deals that can be real simple, or, real complicated, and you just have to choose which way you want to go.
You most likely won't be drinking or even making coffee with your on board water. Still, you want it to be pure enough to drink if need be, so some precaution should be taken. The easy way is what Jon suggested and what most every other experienced RV'er does. We do it about once a year. I am also careful about where I fill the tank, preventing a problem before one starts.
I'm sure ole "Bill" that is spoken about in your post is a fine guy and very experienced in keeping his fresh water tank nice and clean, but man that is overkill. Anyway, like I said, make it easy, or, make it complicated.
Dang, Gary, the Bourbon is gona kill the critters anyway.:)
See You guys in Tenn.

[Ray Davis]

Ted,

Correct me please, if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "Bill" approach seem easier? Put in 1/2 teaspoon of "stuff" every fillup? Seems pretty easy, as compared to remembering to sanitize once-per-year, then drain, flush, refill etc?

Perhaps I'm missing something?

I'll agree, I probably don't want to drink this water much in either case, but in thinking about it, I have water in the door in my fridge, which also makes ice cubes. That water comes in via the fresh water system.


Ray

[tdelorme]

I don't think so, Ray. I'm thinking about the times when I'm hooking up in the rain, or at night, or when we're in a hurry for whatever reason. I think fooling with putting a teaspoon of "stuff" down the hose every time I hook up would be enough of a pain that it wouldn't get done half the time. The once a year deal is really anywhere from eight to 12 months and for me is done in one of those times when I have time to catch up and do whatever it is that I have been putting off for awhile. Not a matter of remembering to do it, it's just one of those deals that gets done every so often when the time to do it is available.
Truthfully, if a person only fills up with "city" water and does so every month or so, sanitizing the tank is an exercise for peace of mind.
I've owned motorhomes for twenty five years and have never run into anyone who has become ill from the water in their coach. Sure, it could happen, but what I do is simple, it works and I've never felt the need to complicate the deal.

[tdelorme]

Oh, Ray, I'll bet your ice maker has a filter like mine does and makes nice clear tasteless ice. Now there is one that's hard to remember to do. Good project for this weekend if I can find a replacement filter.

[Ray Davis]

I'll agree that I haven't spent a lot of time worrying about sanitizing my tank, and have owned motorhomes since 1991 without problem. One thing different with the Prevost (vs previous motorhomes) is the water going into the fridge directly, but as you've indicated, it's protected by it's own filter. Also, the water coming in is filtered as well.

On the new bus, I have never used the gravity feed water filler, which is where I would assume you'd put in the "stuff". I have one of those auto-fill, auto-shutoff inlets that I use. This also forces the incoming water to come in through the filter, where I think the gravity feed does not.

ray

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I was wondering about the ice maker and what to do about the chlorine there that you are sanitizing with. The really only way to do this chlorine sanitation would be to disconnect the Ice makers prior to the flush. Either that or then run them through a few cycles to remove the chlorine???????? I do not like the second choice.

We completly drain ours at least a couple times a year. Never add RV antifreeze just blow the system out with air. I think I sanitized when we got it but not since. We make coffee and ice with it. Always leave town with full home water and never take on any unless nessessary. Never got sick in any way. We too are using it frequently enough and draining often.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Just a few comments.

The water you add to your fresh water holding tank should be known to be treated municipal water or well water that has been tested. If in doubt, do not add it.

Stagnant water, such as from the bus sitting for a while has the potential to grow bacteria that may be harmful if ingested. Unless you drain the tank and all the lines and the HW tank you could have growth of bacteria so it is just easy to use fresh RO water from home for cooking, coffee, etc.

Do not fear a concentration of chlorine unless it is excessive. Almost all municipal water is chlorinated. When I do add chlorine to sanitize I also flush it out after letting it sit for a while, but there is always some residual chlorine in the system and the concentrations are so small it doesn't apprear to hurt anything. We did this for 15 years with the other bus and saw no ill effects.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Jon what about the ice makers?

[phorner]

Having been in charge of a municipal water system for 20 years, it is my recommendation that you simply disinfect the water tank, fill hose, and faucets once a year by using a concentration of 1/4 cup liquid chlorine bleach for every 15 gallons of water.

If you are usually connecting to a public water supply, or a well supply of sanitary quality, there will not be a problem.

In more than 90 percent of the time, this is done to address taste and/or odor concerns and not really to address water safety.

I would be very reluctant to use concentrated disinfectants. In theory, you are trying to achieve a specific chlorine residual, somewhere between 25 and 50 parts per million, or mg/L.

It is probably much more important to spray the hose bib with a bleach/water mixture prior to connecting your fresh water hose every time you connect to one than it is to worry about the bacteriological quality of the tank.

Besides all that, it's a medical fact that alcohol kills germs.... add enough bourbon to the ice cubes and don't worry about it....

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Thanks Paul now I can tell Deb that I had to add a little rum to the cold drink to disinfect the ice:rolleyes:

Hmmmmmmmm, how can I disinfect the coffee???????????:eek:

[lewpopp]

As I recall in the first post that Jon made on this subject, he mentioned he used other water for his coffee and ice cubes, if I recall correctly. I can understand how you can use gallons of spring water for coffee, but how do you make ice cubes(do you have a separate supply of water for that) unless you have ice cube trays and I doubt that.

I think that Joe has the right idea when he uses "barley" in all that he does. Explain that.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Lew your a funny guy. Now you are correcting my spelling but doing it in a different thread making it a bit of a mystery and search:confused:

Once again I'm in the dictionary have found the error and corrected it and thank you for your persistence in this matter. Hopefully with your help I will continue to improve:)

[flyu2there]

"Bill uses Chlorinating Concentrate (Sodium Dichloro-s-Triazinetricone or Sodium Dichlor for short). Sodium Dichlor contains 62% available chlorine. Compare that to household bleach which has something close to 3%. One pound of Sodium Dichlor is equal to 8 gallons of bleach! Also, household bleach contains other stuff, including a lot of salt, and that salt and other stuff is what causes the bad taste and why you have to flush the fresh water tank so well. "


Who ever Bill is, he's nuts! Di chlor and Tri Chlor are poisons, for that matter so is Clorox, I remember when it used to have a skull and crossbones on the label.
First, one pound of swimming pool dry chlorine is more like 80 gallons of Clorox.....and chlorine has even more salt (sodium) than Clorox.
Were talking 8-12 parts per million here, that's all that is needed and it is generally found in that concentration in most municipal water systems and, even at that concentration, there are those who claim it is hazerdous.
A cup here, a tablespoon or two there is going to send concentrations way high.
Personally I just flush the tank every now and then with muni water, then I replace all of the filters. A $500.00 RO System is the answer. You could fill your tank with pond water and still enjoy your coffee, oh, don't forget your icemaker.

"Consider some well-known attributes of chlorine. Let's say, "the dark side" of the saviour. A PhD chemist friend put it this way: "If I were assigned to go into a lab and produce a menu of known carcinogens (cancer-causing agents), the first thing I would do would be to grab-up a cylinder of chlorine and start bubbling it through some water that contains naturally occuring organic acids (humic and fumic acids -- as are found in all natural bodies of water like rivers, lakes, reservoirs, etc.)."




John

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Joe,

We had a U-Line icemaker in the previous coach and we have a refrigerator with and icemaker in our current coach. We did not and will not use either because we cannot adequately sanitize them, and if we did use a chlorox solution to do so our iced tea would taste like a swimming pool because you can't run water through them to flush them out adequately.

If we were full timing or staying in the coach for an extended period I might assume a different opinion. For now Di brings ice from home and makes it in trays using our RO water from home.

And Paul is right, I did calculate the ratio of chlorox to water, but I have no clue where I read it it was so long ago.

[rmboies]

Joe,
If we were full timing or staying in the coach for an extended period I might assume a different opinion. For now Di brings ice from home and makes it in trays using our RO water from home.
.

Jon, we do this as well. I bag ice from the ice maker at home and put it in the ice cube maker tray in the freezer. That way you can still use the ice from the door feature. I had our water from the bus tested in one of our coaches. They only check for a few obvious bacteria and ours did come back negative. I would still rather use bottled water for drinking and ice. If the bus had it's own city water purifying system and chlorine remover post purification I would reconsider. Until then, it is at home or bottled water for us:rolleyes:

[lewpopp]

The purest ice in the world is the ice you purchase in a retail market. That is if all of the sanitary conditions are followed by the manufacturer during the process. Commercially made ice has absolutely no absolutely in it. Captive ice in trays, regardless whether you use RO water or not, can receive odors from foreign objects in the freezer whether the other products are rock frozen or not. You can many times taste the difference in the two products prior to loading up on booze. After a couple, who gives a hoot, right?

There are very few(or none) ice makers for home use that are producing absolutely pure ice.

Did this open a can of worms?

[lewpopp]

Joe, I'm a Virgo and stupid things drive me crazier than hell

You said "Lew, your a funny guy". Sorry, but it's "Lew you're a funny guy" along with a lot of other descriptions which we cannot mention here.

[dalej]

Lew,

How come I didn't see Kathy and you registared for the TN Rally? You had better have a good excuse or your in trouble.

[flyu2there]

Jon,

I don't know if anyone else has done this but.....I installed an RO System under the galley sink of the bus. It takes up a bit of space (not too much) but, you are pretty much guaranteed that you are not swallowing too many bad things with your water, ice tea, coffee or whatever. The trickiest thing was tapping into the line for the ice maker in the refer, other than that, about a two hour job and less than 500.00.

John

[Jon Wehrenberg]

John,

I agree an RO for the bus would be simple, and given the volume of water running through it it is unlikely you would be servicing it any time soon. Our house has an elaborate purification system and a high volume RO, so rather than add a pair of systems to the bus (one for drinking water at the sink and one for the refrigerator) it is just as easy to bring ice and water. If we spent more time at a stretch in the coach that would be a consideration.

[Darl-Wilson]

An easy way to introduce chlorine or whatever product (dry or liquid) through the entire water system is to use the Miracle-Grow or other siphon type of hose-end sprayer. Simply unscrew and remove the spray end and attach a hose which will have the other end connected to the fresh water fill on the bus. Of course the water entry end of the spray bottle will be connected with a hose to the fresh water supply. Then add the appropriate amount of chemical to the container. This will allow the diluted mixture to be introduced gradually rather than directly into the tank. This method should avoid spills and the bottle can be used for storage of the chemical for the next treatment.

Costco sells the RO systems for well under $200.00. They DO take up some space. A complete set of replacement filters are under $40. I've had two of them and they work great:)

[phorner]

Make sure to connect the Miracle-Grow tank at the hose bib if possible...

That way you disinfect the water fill hose as well...

[flyu2there]

I still stand on my premise that introducong bad stuff (Clorox, Chlorine) is not good for your health or the health of others......put in a Costco RO system and roll over and take a nap. I ended up at a shade less than 500 bucks to get it all.........extra fittings and the like.
Chlorine is bad for your...it may make you sick and you might not realize the problem for months. It's poison..that's a fact.....................

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I know people from culligan locally. I've been asking around today. This would be a great addition or upgrade to any bus who does not currently have something like this.

A RO system about the size of a fat briefcase and about 500 bucks and easily installed sounds like a smart thing to do if nothing else.

How big and what is the recovery rate on yours Phroner and what about yours John what is the recovery on yours and how big is it?. The recovery rate on a system that is compact might be 2 or 3 gal per hr?

So if you have about 5 days headway for a trip one could fill a fresh water tank from empty with good water from home pushed through a compact, easy to install system? Then always run off the tank and pump even at a campground and constantly replenish the tank with campground water pushed through the system about 25 gal a day or so?

Would that be correct? Comments and suggestions and pictures welcome:rolleyes:

[merle&louise]

Gary,

I have a water filtration system on my coach. I'm not sure how it works but the water and ice tastes good and there is no odor ever from the fresh water tank. Once a year I connect a hose to it, run water thru it, and set the timer for 30 minutes. This back flushes it - then it is good to go for another year.

If you want some more information on it let me know.

[Darl-Wilson]

I just came back from Costco, buying a battery for my bus generator. While checking the RO system they sell in the store another customer told me about a new one available on-line that is 'no waste'. (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10034720&whse=BC&Ne=5000000+4000000&eCat=BC%7C89%7C54018&N=4016003%205000014&Sp=C&No=1&Mo=7&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ns=P_Price%7C1%7C%7CP_SignDesc1)
RO systems spit about 4 gallons down the drain for every gallon they purify. This model is more expensive but does not waste any water, a very important item for an RV. The size looks about the same as mine, which is mounted under the sink.

We usually refill our Dasani and other expensive water bottles a time or two out of the filtered water. I am sure we have paid for our system several times over with just the saving on water. Checking the back of the Dasani bottle will reveal that their water uses exactly the same process as as the Watts-Costco system.

Am I cheap? Probably in this regard but those pennies do add up. I am guessing that saving money is one of the reasons many of us belong to this great group!:rolleyes:

[jack14r]

Darl,I don't believe that system is a real RO system because it states that it reduces impurities.I have a industrial RO system in my manufacturing plant and it makes 10 GPM and uses 2 GPM to discharge the impurities.Based on the description the Cosco unit appears to be a filter.Chlorine in short order will destroy a DI or RO system.My experence has been that I want chlorinated water (city water) in my fresh water tank because it will be good for several weeks.Jack

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If you have chlorinated water and want to protect the integrity of the RO unit you must have a charcoal filter ahead of the RO unit to assure that chlorine has been removed.

[phorner]

I think that there is much too much concern here. Public water systems are required to maintain a free chlorine residual of between 0.2 and 0.5 ppm.

When chlorine is added to a water supply, it is consumed by natural organic material that may be present, and is also impacted by temperature, pH, and even sunlight.

After so much of the chlorine is "consumed", there is some left, which is referred to as a free chlorine residual, and means that there is still some chlorine left to disinfect the surfaces that it comes into contact with. Accordingly, your fresh water tank has some protection afforded it if you use a municipal water supply on a regular basis.

A reverse-osmosis system is probably the best at removing most contaminants, but wastes a significant amount of water in the process. Not a big concern if you are using it solely for the refer or perhaps a single sink outlet. Essentially, it passes water, under significant pressure, through a membrane that is sized to allow only the water molecules through. The volume of water that doesn't get through is sent to waste. Of course, this quantity is determined to a certain extent on how clean the water is to start with.

Personally, I feel that there is very little chance of a health risk when using public water supplies in a bus water storage system that is kept reasonably clean.

I would worry more about keeping it leak-free than microbe-free...

And keep those ice cubes sterile with liberal amounts of alcohol!!

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Good comments Paul. I must say I was surprised to here that Jon will not use it even for ice and he is not alone either.

I can land a pretty good unit for nothing a side from some new filters and installation and am considering it.

[Darl-Wilson]

Paul, you're the guy with experience in these things so I'll defer to the expert. The only reason I use the RO system in my house is to improve the taste of my water. I couldn't count the times I've gulped water out of a mountain stream or from a bubbling spring. I am sure many times there were cattle and other animals upstream doing the same thing while urinating, etc. in the water. In my almost 70 years, to my knowledge, I was never sickened by water, even when I lived over ten years in Mexico.

I have some experience with water stored in polypropylene tanks in RVs. When I owned my RV business we would often find algae, bugs, and other junk inside of freshwater tanks. These were always because the security of the tank was not intact. People would remove the wood covers or they were exposed to sunlight in some manner and almost instantly green growth appeared. Loose or missing caps/vents allowed bugs, dust or other debris inside. In short, contamination occurred mostly as a result of carelessness, not because of the liquid introduced into the tank.

I don't have an RO system on my bus. I am very careful about the source of my water. Like Jon, we drink mostly bottled water and use the Walmart gallons for coffeee. We do use the ice made by the ice maker in the coach. And like Paul, I think if integrity is maintained while water is introduced into the tank we will be safe without elaborate measures.

Jack, the Watts system advertised and sold by Costco states it is RO. I haven't vetted Costco so they might be like some of our political candidates.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Thanks Paul now I can tell Deb that I had to add a little rum to the cold drink to disinfect the ice:rolleyes:

Hmmmmmmmm, how can I disinfect the coffee???????????:eek:

Hey Joe, A shot of Baileys to the coffee, should do it! :D

Gary S.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I have been out in the bus since Friday, learning more about it's inner workings, and finding nooks and crannies to store stuff in, and having a great time, so I have not been keeping up with my posts, SORRY.

Now about this thread I started, "SANITIZING the Tanks. I truly believe it would be a smart thing to sanitize and treat the tank and lines of the bus, at least once a year, but again everybody has to be happy with the labor involved in doing it. (Like everything else that is done on these buss's.)

Ray, here is the web site I got "Bills" Information from, http://rvbasics.com/techtips/sanitizing-your-rv-fresh-water-system.html and I called my pool supply store to check out this chemical, and it is designed to be put and LEFT in the water to sterilize and sanitize, tanks and lines. It has to be carefully administered to the tank.

Even the owner of my bus, Jerry stated that he sanitized this tank at least once a year, and he used the Clorox Treatment, but with this treatment you have to treat, drain, refill, and probably drain and refill again?

I believe I will still look into the Thetford Chemical procedure as well, which is designed for bus use.

I also found on the bus this weekend a "Pure Water Enterprises" tank for something to do with the water system, ( their phone listing is N/A ) and a removable canister water filter, which I could not see any markings on, but will be trying to remove and replace this unit, soon.

See Ya'll in a couple of weeks.

Gary S.

[merle&louise]

Gary,

I have a Pure Water Enterprises water filter on my coach also. I backwash it about twice a year. It keeps the water & ice fresh and clean. My model # is BF-250. I backflush it for about 30 minutes with the water hose connected to the city water connection on my coach. I have some paperwork on it if you don't have any paperwork on yours let me know and I will fax it to you.

See you in Tenn.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Gary,

I have a Pure Water Enterprises water filter on my coach also. I backwash it about twice a year. It keeps the water & ice fresh and clean. My model # is BF-250. I backflush it for about 30 minutes with the water hose connected to the city water connection on my coach. I have some paperwork on it if you don't have any paperwork on yours let me know and I will fax it to you.

See you in Tenn.

Tuga, that is exactly the model I have. I looked in my Prevost box of paperwork, but could not find any paperwork on the PWE water filter, and would appreciate it very much if you could email a PDF. file or just fax it, and thanks a bunch. (281) 343-1107 Fax or gstevens7@comcast.net :)

Gary S.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I stopped by PPL motorhomes today, and the products they had for sanitizing water where all Camco Products. The product they sell the most is "TastePure" Drinking Water. http://www.camco.net/Menu.cfm?SupCategoryId=10000&SubCategoryId=212&ProductId=2062

8oz or half this bottle which sells for $5.99 treats an entire 160gal tank, and you treat and forget it, treating maybe once or twice a year. Pretty resonable cost for what it does, and no draining or refilling of existing water is necessary.

Just thought I would pass this info along. They have several products on their main site, http://www.camco.net/Menu.cfm?SupCategoryId=10000&SubCategoryId=212

Gary S.