Sway Bar Bushings

[dale farley]

When checking all the components under the bus, I noticed that the neopreme bushings in both my front and rear sway bars were worn out. This surprised me since there is only 68K miles on the bus. I was further surprised to learn that these bushings should be checked/changed about every 40K-50K miles. This may be something that anyone with the sway bars keeps an eye on.

[dalej]

What do you mean by wore out, can you post a photo?

I'm running close to 200,000 and watching the wearing of these items, but don't see it yet. They have age lines.....kind'a like me! :)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Dale J said what I would have said. The bushings that I have learned to check whenever I am under the coach are the ones in the shock absorbers and the stabilisators.

Post pictures please, Dale F.

[dale farley]

When I left Mississippi with my bus the day I bought it, I started hearing a noise in the front end. The rattle became increasingly worse, so I assume the neopreme actually started falling out of the worst one. I would have thought that I just had an isolated case of premature failure as a result of faulty parts or incorrect torque, although the bolts were not loose on mine. I mentioned this to another Prevost owner, and he told me that he had the same failure at around 67K miles. He said he had them replaced at a shop and was told that it was not uncommon for them to fail at 40K to 50K miles. Maybe I misunderstood what he told me, and I will verify when I can get back in touch with him.

I hope this was just two isolated cases, because I don't at all see why these should fail so early. Maybe Prevost installled some bad ones in some of the 98-99 models. I really don't know, but I think the pictures verify that mine were a "little" on the worn out side. Fortunatley, it was a very easy and inexpensive fix. Less than $45 for all bushings and less than two hours to remove, clean and re-install.

I just realized that in this first picture, I show the bottom connector for the sway bar. It appears that the steering arm above the sway bar link is part of that same bar, but it is not. You cannot see the top end of the sway bar link, but it looks just like the bottom connector.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Dale, do you have independent front suspension?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Yes he does and his set-up looks different than mine or Dale J's. Maybe that is the reason. Good call Jim.

[Orren Zook]

It looks like it would be a two piece bushing, similar to the replaceable shock absorber bushing. Does it have a 1" or smaller hole? If so there are several bushing materials used, maybe one would offer better service life.

[win42]

It looks like it would be a two piece bushing, similar to the replaceable shock absorber bushing. Does it have a 1" or smaller hole? If so there are several bushing materials used, maybe one would offer better service life.
I would guess Urethane bushings would be a good replacement for longer wear.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I have no idea of the engineering requirements, but I had the urethane bushings in the stabilisators on my coach. The shocks have rubber bushings.

The urethane bushings literally pounded themselves out of existance in a few hundred miles. It is because of the speed with which the bushings failed and were pulverized into pieces which fell out that causes me to very carefully examine them whenever I am under the coach.

[dale farley]

When I called Prevost to order the bushings, they told me there were two choices: rubber and neopreme. They said most use the neopreme because they come in two pieces where the rubber comes as a one-piece. I got the impression the neopreme/urethane costs a little more and were considered to be the best option, but I am not sure they will outlast the rubber. As Jon said, they seemed to have pounded theirselves apart. If these don't last very long, I may try the rubber ones next time.

[Orren Zook]

In you photo there appears to be a ridge in the center of the eye, that would indicate a two piece bushing was used. One piece rubber bushings are usually sleeved inside so that your mounting bolt can be easily slid through the bushing, these usually need to be pressed into the application.

[dale farley]

Yes, all the neopreme bushings for the sway bars are two-piece and the rubber are one-piece. I have installed the rubber ones before, but it takes a press or some soap and hard work.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Yes, all the neopreme bushings for the sway bars are two-piece and the rubber are one-piece. I have installed the rubber ones before, but it takes a press or some soap and hard work.

As with Shock Absorber bushings you may buy the one piece style, and cut them in half yourself.

[win42]

We replaced the bushings on our off road Jeeps to get a tougher material. We have not used them long enough to determine any difference in longevity. These replacements were red in color Urethane bushings. There may be different durometer Urethane materials available. We have some soft urethane block material in our shop and it tends to harden with age.

This was a good post, keep us informed on your outcome.

[GSwaim]

I started hearing noidse while driving rough roads and I too have found it to be the sway bay bushings. they are completely gone on the bar ends that connect to the dog bones. I'm about to order new ones from Prevost but wondered if I should go with the rubber or the neopreme? I have access to a hydraulic press that can be used to press the rubber into the sway bar while it is still on the bus so that isn't an issue. I'm looking for quality and durability not ease of installation. What do you think?

Gary
2002 Royale XLII #332

[dale farley]

Gary,

I'm pretty sure Prevost recommended the neopreme/urathane when I installed mine. If they had told me the rubber would last longer, I would have used them. If you hear different, let us know. It is a relatively simple job.

[GSwaim]

I got a hold of Prevost, Nashville today and set an appointment for this work. The service mananger said he would talk with the guys and see which type see more of in bad shape. My suspicion is the rubber are harder to install but last longer. I'll let everyone know once I have the job doen at the beginning of the month.

Any advice for a guy that is going to a prevost service shop for the first time?

[dale farley]

Gary,

Make sure you replace the ones in both front and rear.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Any advice for a guy that is going to a prevost service shop for the first time?

Based on information, stories and advice posted on this forum I would suggest getting a quote, staying with your coach and observing, and keeping track of both the time and the tasks performed. You will learn some about your coach, they will understand you are interested, and it is unlikely you will be charged for work not performed.

[dale farley]

Based on my experience, I think Prevost should complete the job on front and rear in about an hour.

[GSwaim]

Thanks Roadrunner, that helps.

[GSwaim]

Jon,
I'm a hands on kind of guy so your post was most valuable to me. I would be doing this work myself if I had my new shop set up with jack, stands and air. I enjoy working on my stuff so I'm hoping they will let me learn from them out there in Nashville. So many times they won't let you even watch from a distance claiming insurance reasons. Any thoughts?

[dale farley]

Gary, I just looked at my records, and in 2008, I paid $41.80 for all 16 of the red poly bushings that I installed. That will give you some reference about the price of the parts alone.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary,

The last times I was in a Prevost shop they did not prohibit anyone from watching the mechanic. I have been in the NJ, FL, and the TN shops and all allowed the customer to watch the work.

The only time they prevented owners from being in the shop was in 1994 or 1995 when Prevost moved from the old shop on Wilson in Jacksonville to the present one. As soon as I was prevented from being with my coach to observe the mechanic I decided to never again allow that to happen and from that point on I have done my own work.

They have since changed that policy. BTW It drives me nuts when people claim they cannot allow anyone in the shop for "insurance" reasons. What a bunch of bullshit and lies that is.

[travelite]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<snip snip snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
BTW It drives me nuts when people claim they cannot allow anyone in the shop for "insurance" reasons. What a bunch of bullshit and lies that is.

Jon, please explain. If a customer happens to fall into a pit there can be some serious liability...

[truk4u]

I have never been unable to be involved with the maintenance at Jacksonville or Nashville and Nancy has never left the bus while it's up on the lift with shore power connected. I think they do a fantastic job of allowing customers to watch and learn. You do have to use common sense and not drive them nut's. I set a chair up just outside the service bay door and stay out of the way, but they always allow you to look at work being done and interact where needed.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

David, life is a risk. I have owned a number of shops ranging from a precast concrete facility with bridge cranes to my last one a 165,000 square foot facility with presses up to 300 ton and many fork trucks, finishing facilities, lots of welders and all kinds of hazards to the careless. Not a single insurance policy forbid me from allowing visitors in our buildings, either customers, sales reps, or any other invited guest.

As a policy we did not allow people to just go in the shop and wander around (unless they had to be in the shop such as servicing a machine) unaccompanied. Prevost is no different. I will guarantee you 100% of the people who have told me they don't let people in the shop for insurance purposes have never seen a policy much less read one.

[GSwaim]

Jon, I'll keep that in mind when Prevost asks me to leave the shop. I too have run a professional shop and understand the nuisance of customers that can't wait to ask a million questions. I just don't trust anyone with my stuff unless I'm there watching. There are too many shortcuts mechanics can take which doesn't meet my standards.

[phorner]

The only Prevost shop I've been to is the Jacksonville, Florida facility. They had no issue with me sticking close to the bus, watching the technician, and asking as many questions as I could think of.

In fact, I think the guy working on my bus actually appreciated that I was wanting to be "involved" in the process and cared about the hows and whys of the work being performed. The only problem I find is trying to find that balance of being interested and helpful without being either in the way or a PITA.

Good luck with your repairs...

[GSwaim]

What is PITA?

[Kenneth Brewer]

What is PITA?

Pain in the ass

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

I noticed that the large rubber D bushing on the driver side of the torque bar is working itself out. I plan on a sledge and a long 2x4 and see if I can get back in. Have not formed a plan how to keep it in yet. Any one address this before?
Royale 2001 IFS

[Kevin Erion]

I think you need to remove or loosen the mount that the rubber sits in for it to go back in place.

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

That makes sense, the machine is stored up in Georgia now and an trying to think how to keep it from moving again

[GSwaim]

Settin at Prevost, Nashville waiting till the morning when they are going to install new Sway Bar bushings. I'm going to go with the OEM rubber style instead of Neoprene unloess someone can tell me that the plastci are better than rubber. I had plastic but they crumbled and fell out. Unfortunately I have no idea how old they were but the bus is an 02 with 65K miles. Anyone have experience with rubber vs Neoprene?

[Jerry Winchester]

I'll be curious to see how this goes. In doing my walk around the bus on Friday before we left for Dallas, I noticed that the right front tire had some serious abnormal wear on the outer edge. I got to Dallas late Friday but had the bus over to a tire shop on Saturday where I discover that it appears the sway bar bushings are shot as well as the upper control arm bushings which may have caused the wear because of too much camber.

So now I get to replace them all, buy a new tire and have the front end alligned. I thought I had heard the sway bar rattle, but didn't think the bushings would be shot at 80K miles.

[Kevin Erion]

Jerry, it's my opinion that the sway bar will not effect the tire wear but the A-arm bushings will. Sway bar bushings are easy, the other is not!

[jack14r]

Jerry,I would think that when the upper a arm bushings are replaced that the camber will be correct.

[BrianE]

When camber adjustment is needed, shims are installed between the A arm and frame on the mounting bolts.

[Orren Zook]

Settin at Prevost, Nashville waiting till the morning when they are going to install new Sway Bar bushings. I'm going to go with the OEM rubber style instead of Neoprene unloess someone can tell me that the plastci are better than rubber. I had plastic but they crumbled and fell out. Unfortunately I have no idea how old they were but the bus is an 02 with 65K miles. Anyone have experience with rubber vs Neoprene?

Neoprene is a synthetic rubber developed by DuPont back in the 1930's. Most "rubber" bushings used in suspension applications are of this type material, polyurethane replacements have been giving better service life in truck applications, but at a slightly higher initial cost.

[rfoster]

Jdub: Since its your bus, I would have thought that the unusual tire wear would be on the drivers' side.

[Jerry Winchester]

King,

There has been a serious taco drought along the Texas gulf coast, so the only folks living large around here are the government employees (see Loc McNew). I'm probably going to have to sell some aluminum cans to pay for this bushing job.

JDUB

[GDeen]

I was amazed at how much the new sway bar bushings tightened up the ride on mine when I had them replaced. One of the few times I had work done on a vehicle where you can actually feel a difference.

[GSwaim]

We arrived last night at Prevost Nashville. This new Prevost facility is the nicest I've seen anywhere in the nation. The floors are spotless, the mechanics are great and it doesn't get much better than being able to free walk under your bus for extended inspections. I knew coming in that I needed front link (dogbone) busings but to my surprise the rears were bad too.

http://swaimquest.com/images/frt%20poly%20busings%20tore%20up.JPG

all bushings that were removed were poly and had wore crumbled and sin some cases fell out in three years and 20K miles. For that reason, I decided to go back to rubber bushings.

http://swaimquest.com/images/new%20rubber%20bushing.JPG

I've heard that trucks enjoy extended life from poly but since we squat our bus when leveling it, I feel it destorts the poly bushings beyond their capability making them prematurely fall apart. When the dogbones were all back in place squating the bus put a bind on the rubber but didn'tt permanently distort the bushing when back up to ride height. Only time will tell if it oulasts the poly.
:confused:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Our suspension travel does not cause the problems. Rob Russell's entertainer coaches all have leveling systems and they are leveled every night when on the road. Since his are averaging over 400,000 miles before replacement he does not think it is a leveling or number of cycles issue, but of the material aging out.

Roger and I had a lengthy discussion with Rob about this issue and the only conclusion that we could come up with regarding the ridiculously short miles on our coaches to failure of the bushings may be age.

[lonesome george]

Here is a picture of one of the lower front sway bar link bushings removed from my bus, all of the link bushings top and bottom were completely intact no cracks, torn or missing sections. The bushing bores were elliptical from center to one side and the bushing on the other side of the link was also elliptical from center but indexed 180 degrees, similar to the top right and bottom left of an hour glass.
I'll leave it to the mob to decide what caused this.
Note: this bus it was driven only 900 miles in 5 years prior to our purchase, we fixed that we are at 20K in about a year and a half.

[Orren Zook]

Gary,
From your pictures it looks like a two piece bushing was installed and you replaced them with a different style, possibly a one piece bushing - is that correct? Had they been replaced before or were they original to your coach?

[gmcbuffalo]

Could weight be an issue here, causing torque on the bolts going through the bushings. What is the difference in an entertainers coaches weight and a MH coach?

[gmcbuffalo]

Another thing, these product could be like tires in that if they are not flexing causing the oils to redistribute from use they dry out and crack.

[GSwaim]

I learned from Prevost Parts there are two types of bushings available. The poly ones which are two peice for ease of installation & are red in color. The other type are rubber and are one peice, these are black. Although oils and such can cause rubber to prematurely breakdown in commercial duty service, I chose to go with rubber. The reason being, I suspect lowering our bus at weird angles during leveling puts a lot of stress on the bushings. I suspect rubber will flex better and allow the bushings to accept this stress better. I've just completed a full independent wheel weighing of my bus, so weight was not the culprit. I am however surprised that the right side of my non-slide bus is heavier by 700 pounds than the left. My generator is on one side and the batteries are directly across from them so that isn't the culprit. My front storage bay is practically empty so that has no affect either. I'm at a loss why the weight differencial. My tire wear is perfectly even and the handling is great so I'm not all that worried about this.

The failed poly busings in my bus were only 3 years old with 30K miles on them. I didn't put these miles on them so I can't tell you what they were like. I can tell you it was a professional truck driver that did put those miles on and he parked where the incline wasn't all that severe but lowered the bus to the ground during stops. In any case, I've replaced all of my bushings with the one peice rubber front and rear, so I will see what happens and report to all my findings.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

With all the reports of issues with bushings and the number of owners that have experienced problems I truly believe Prevost has a design issue. IFS was all the rage when it first came out, but with the history of service problems something is wrong.

Greg asks about the weight which is a valid question. I know from Rob Russell that he loads to the axle limit, but tries very hard to get his drivers to not exceed those limits. I also know his coaches are dropped and raised as necessary to keep them level, just like our coaches. I know he gets over 400,000 miles out of his bushings.

Until Gary just posted his bushings were only 3 years old I was leaning towards age, but apparently that is not the issue.

I remember when Prevost made an excellent product and then stood behind it.

[Donnie_M]

I see this ALL the time! I have a coach at Josams as we speak with 40k miles getting new sway bar and upper control arm bushings. The upper sway bar bushings are completely gone...as in not there. Both front and rear sway bars look like this. This coach is an 05. The bushings on the lower are rubber and split real bad. The common thing I see with all of them is the threaded pin the bushings ride on are ALWAYS rusty and galled. It's just like the 365 tires. If the coach sets, the tire has a greater chance of coming apart in 15-20k miles versus one that gets drove like passenger buses and get 100k out of them. You guys should look at those upper control arm bushings really close on the IFS coaches.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I wonder if there is a pattern to the bushing issue? I am not affected, but if I were I would gather information from companies running Prevost seated coaches and gather information from motorhome owners. I think this problem is serious enough that there should be a recall and a permanent fix.

Our cars have had similar front end designs and you almost never hear anyone replacing A arm bushings.

[Jerry Winchester]

Okay, here is the report from my trip to Prevost.

We got the coach up on the lift and the sway bar bushings were indeed in a bad way. Then the technician says, "If the front ones are this bad, I'll bet the back ones are in the same shape". So we go to the rear (I didn't seem to remember there was a sway bar in the back) and sure enough, they are worse.

So we go back to the front and he says, "These control arm bushings are okay." So we go look at the driver side and notice that the tire on that side has some abnormal wear on the inside of the tire. Remember, the first sign was the abnormal wear on the outside of the pass. side tire. Upon further inspection, he notices that the lower control arm is slightly bent. Looks kinda like someone put a jack under it to try and lift the coach.

Okay, then I say, "Well why would the right tire be worn if the left lower control arm is bent?" We get to looking at the upper control arm on the right hand side and it has, as the technician says, "A whole bunch of shims" on it or at least more than he typically is used to seeing.

Anyway, he replaces all the sway bar bushings, the lower control arm on the left side, both front tires and then they align it. And while it didn't drive badly before (other than the sway bar banging around), it really drove well on the way home. Very smooth. And I don't know if the sway bar bushing wear might manifest itself as a bump steer problem, but given the crappy state of the roads in and around Dallas, I would say that having all the suspension components working properly made the trip home much more enjoyable.

6744

[Kenneth Brewer]

Settin at Prevost, Nashville waiting till the morning when they are going to install new Sway Bar bushings. I'm going to go with the OEM rubber style instead of Neoprene unloess someone can tell me that the plastci are better than rubber. I had plastic but they crumbled and fell out. Unfortunately I have no idea how old they were but the bus is an 02 with 65K miles. Anyone have experience with rubber vs Neoprene?

This might(?) be a case of a bad batch/manufacturer rather than the proper material's normal performance. And it may happen occasionally with 'rubber'/neoprene as well. Quality control (or shelf life?) may be the culprit as well. I don't know but I will try and find out. I haven't looked at mine yet.

[dmatz]

I have about 60k on my 02 the front sway bar bushings were replaced last year and the rears this year. They certinally do not stand the test of time on our coaches. Apparantly the miles do not appear to matter either. The local charter company with 50 plus prevost stock them so that leads me to think it's not designed for the use it is getting. They are not listed on the lubrication and service schedule from prevost either. An annual check on them appears to be in order.