#&%/^@$ Webasto

[flyu2there]

I rarely use the Webasto and when I tried it the other day...nothing.
Both fuel filters are new, I can here the the timer firing the spark but the fan does not start. On the top of the unit are two sensors, one I believe is a thermostat and the other is an overtemp; if my memory serves me correctly if either of these are distressed, it will prevent the fan from starting. My question is on jumping the sensors; I don't want to knock out the brain so to test that function they either have to be removed or jumped together...I think. Input would be appreciated.

thanks in advance

[MangoMike]

Flyboy,

This most common issue with a non start is the nozzle, which can easily be clogged and should be changed every year. At under $20 it's cheap insurance.

You can get one at the following:

thermo king roanoke,va ken parts
540 343-1528


Another supplier
Vehicle systems
800.685.4298 Fort Lupton, CO Dan Clark in Service

Depending on your model 2010 vs 2020 there are different volume nozzles.

The second issue could be a cloudy photo cell. Which needs to be clear to let the "brain" know it's firing, else it send a shutdown signal.

There's some good info on my site over at Prevoman.com

http://www.prevoman.com/Pages/Webasto/Webapage1.html

Mike

[MangoMike]

2384

Here is the timing schedule.

The fan motor (heater motor) should start at power up. This motor also powers the fuel pump.

[flyu2there]

I had this happen once before a few years back and only partially remember the fix. Seems to me that after a troubleshoot I found the overtemp sensor had failed which prevented the blower motor from starting; replaced that sensor and the blower began running and it fired off. Some sort of failsafe that won't let it start (blower, hence system) if it senses or has sensed an over temp condition....and of course the other alternative, the sensor failed. My thought was to jump the sensor (s) and to see if the fan goes.....

I just didn't want to short out the brain, I know that piece is quite spendy,

Thanks

John

[flyu2there]

Mike,

Good stuff on the Webasto over at your site! What I did not see were the sensors that are inside of the plastic shroud over the burner can. They are wired, on my unit, back to the brain which I gather has the ultimate authority over the entire unit.

Someone walked off with my Webasto manual so I had a set delivered to me from the outfit in Denver, unfortunately what I have is how to make your Webasto work in your Peterbilt in Alaska...or something like that. Maybe mine is a 2030...dunno.

Thanks

John

[Darrell McCarley]

Flyu2there, The overheat fuse is a small brass screw in type under the black plastic cover on top. Jump the 2 small white wires to see if the fuse is blown. If your unit fires up and runs, It is the fuse. Prevost sells the fuse for $18.00. I replaced the fuse on my unit last week. My blower worked fine but the fuel would not ignite.

[MangoMike]

Fly4Free,

email me and I'll send you a Webasto manual as a .pdf file. mike@mangomikes.com

In the meantime if you want to check to see if you're blower fan (heater) motor is working. Determine the proper voltage for your unit (2010 or 2020)and remove the largest connector from the brain. Wire #5 is ground (brown) and wire #2 is power (black). And apply power, the blower should start up if it's ok.

2387

[Darl-Wilson]

Mango and Darrell, thanks for all the great info you gave John. I am having the same problem and now I have a road map to get this thing fixed. Mango, can you cc: on the manual? I'll email you.

Thanks,
Darl

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Flyu2there, few things:

I'm noticing a pattern to your motor homes.

I think we need something easier to type to call you and it would probably be better for you if you came up with yourself it instead of one of us.:rolleyes:

After helping me for a few hours with our E-Spar you will redevelop appreciation for your Webasto. Would you possibly know how to read German?

[gmcbuffalo]

Use your voltmeter and see if you can get a positive continuity check across the two sensors, if so they are OK.
Greg

[doodlebug45]

Flyu2there, few things:

I'm noticing a pattern to your motor homes.

I think we need something easier to type to call you and it would probably be better for you if you came up with yourself it instead of one of us.:rolleyes:

After helping me for a few hours with our E-Spar you will redevelop appreciation for your Webasto. Would you possibly know how to read German?

Well said on the Espar Joe. Anybody complaining about Webasto should try this evil device from Germany. They don't even work well as boat anchors!

Hugh (D'Bug)

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Did everyone notice how he quickly responded to my suggestion of abbreviating his name before we did:rolleyes:

Dbug you've got one? We need to talk.

[flyu2there]

Flyu2there, few things:

I'm noticing a pattern to your motor homes.

I think we need something easier to type to call you and it would probably be better for you if you came up with yourself it instead of one of us.:rolleyes:

After helping me for a few hours with our E-Spar you will redevelop appreciation for your Webasto. Would you possibly know how to read German?

Joe,


See what you mean...no, I don't have a thing about 1999.

I bought the Intrigue new in early 1999. A short time later I ran into a Canadian who had this big new Prevost that he found he could not take back to Canada, something about MOT or DOT approvals. The Rialta came along a few years later with 3000 miles on it...we have a beach house in Pismo and backing either of the other two coaches into the driveway made the local news....especially the Intrigue with NO IFS.

Maybe I will take off the fly and the there and just become U2...that kind of says it all for a variety of situations.

Thanks to everyone for the Webasto help; I will attack the damn thing this weekend.

John

[MangoMike]

Guys, (and Debi),

Looks like the new guy (now known as Gary Powers) is a member of the TBC.

Mike

[doodlebug45]

Did everyone notice how he quickly responded to my suggestion of abbreviating his name before we did:rolleyes:

Dbug you've got one? We need to talk.

Sorry Joe. I HAD 2 Espars (large & small) in a boat I sold 2 years ago. They weren't the main reason for selling the boat but they were high on the list. When they were both running, it sounded like an F15 attacking the marina. People used to run on deck and scan the skies. That seldom happened cause at least one was usually broke. I just loved those 3 to 4 week delivery times for parts from the fatherland.
D'Bug

[flyu2there]

Mango,

Attacked the Webasto...mine is a DBW 2010 and instead of 3, 13 mm whatchamakaulitz there are two, at 4 and 7 o'clock and they are 10mm....yep you need a 10" extension. Pulled it all apart, pulled out tested and cleaned photocell..ok. Pulled the injector, dumped it in carb cleaner and blew it all out. Spent a good 45 minutes trying to use that halffast feeler gauge they supply, to align the ignitors. Cleaned them up as well, ran a little 600 on them for good luck; no cracks or apparent damage, book says they are o.k. Put it all back together, had to pull that monster cotter pin to do it, and fired it up....NUTTIN.

Went into the voltage department and all of that checked ok. Used the checklist and everything pointed to the motor. Pulled that black plastic cover, exposed a clock motor. Turned fine, pulled it, put it on 12V, 1 amp and it spun like a top. Put that whole mess back together, that clutching system looks like a tinkertoy, sprayed it with silicone and slapped it back together again.

Country Coach has that Webasto as far back on the RH side as they can get it, end result is that my hands look like I pulled apart two fighting male cats. Also, I didn't like the looks of some of the fuel lines so I am going to change them now....then a Jack Daniels.

I will try again tomorrow to fire it off.......looks like a whole lot of aggrevation could be avoided with the Webasto handy-dandy testor.


John:eek:

[truk4u]

John,

Go for the Jack, you deserve it!:D

[MangoMike]

Gary Powers

Sounds like you did your homework, as your hands will certainly tell you.

By the injector, do you mean the nozzle? I don't think carb cleaner will do the trick as it's better to just replace it for $20. I tried blowing mine out onetime with an airhose, with no luck. But this probably isn't your problem,

I was also going to buy the handy dandy Webasto tester, but it's $500. I'd rather use that money for fuel. So I think I can create one from an old brain, my latest project.

I have a brain for a 2020, (12v) let's find out if it will work on the 2010 and if it's the case let me send it to you to try. It would be a shame for you to buy a new one for megaLewbucks just to find out it's not the problem. Although if I was a betting man I'd say it's the brain.

When your replace the fuel lines I would add a shut off valve to the supply side (make sure note which is supply and return) and replace the small inline fuel filter (if you have one) with a clear one. This will help in future diagnoses if you're getting fuel. You can turn off the shut off valve ( which should be on the tank side of the fuel filter) and run the Webasto. If your fuel pump is working correctly you'll see the fuel drain down on the filter.

Mike

[flyu2there]

Guys,

Mine has two fuel filters, changed them both out as I ordered duplicate parts from the supplier in Fort Lupton, Colorado when I determined I had an overtemp sensor failure....probably the last time I ran the thing. I think the filters are the ones that come with the unit, in fact I know they are because of the Webasto name.

The fuel lines into and out of the unit were starting to get stiff, no bueno!

Mike, your manual has both models of the Webasto, my thoughts are the only differences may be the pin outs....I will look.

Anyway, I will change those lines in the a.m. then put it all back together and try it again. BTW, another anomoly with my unit; apparently there is some kind of pre-heater. On my overhead panel in the bus I have an indicator for Webasto pre-heat....:confused: Not sure if that may be part of the problem or not....all of that pre-heat stuff runs thru the coach mother and daughter boards....that 's a whole new ball game. It's 85 degrees here today so logic would say that no pre-heater would be necessary...........

Thanks Again,

John

[VegasDogMan]

Mine quit when I had a filter change... they installed a coolant filter rather than diesel filter. They looked the same.!

[truk4u]

John,

My book shows a pre-heater button, but no joy in mine. Must be they did away with this around my build time.

[MangoMike]

Doesn't look like I have a preheat on either the Liberty or the Marathon.

Plus...
I'm still trying to fiqure out this model Number - #&%/^@$

[gmcbuffalo]

Are we sure the Pre Heat button is not a switch to turn on the Webasto to pre heat the engine, like a electrical pre heat?

The test only applies 12 or 24 volts to individual functions of the Webasto, so look at the functions of each pins on the brain connectors and apply the correct voltage and see if all systems work.

Did you test the spark and listen for the clicking sounds of spark arcing?

GregM

[flyu2there]

Guys,

Both of the manuals that I have, one from Mango and the one I ordered from Fort Lupton some time ago (How to install a Webasto in your Peterbilt), indicate that these units have Pre-Heaters that heat the fuel prior to it being sprayed out thru the nozzle. My CC has an annunciator panel on the overhead with or about 20 lights. Several of the lights are also switches however the Webasto Pre Heat it is merely an indicator light. Looking forward, at the 10 o'clock position on the Webasto unit itself, you will find the handy dandy feeler gauge for adjusting the ignitors, AND at the 2 o'clock position, also mounted on the case I find a relay......looks very much like a turn signal relay. This relay draws power from the A block on the brain (power in, small one)...........................

Here is the two fold question. Does everybody see this relay on their Webasto???? Wonder what the control is for this relay and if its failure might prevent the Webasto from runnning..........these schematics are tuff to read. I am trying to trace thru them..:confused:..lets see, shown in the relaxed and open position....

Naw, couldn't be that this coach was originally going to ship to Edmonton....CC isn't that bright....


John

[dreamchasers]

John,

The schematic that I have shows the relay to be in the pre-heat circuit. Check out the schematic pages, page 9. Mine is a model 2010.

http://www.suremarine.com/manuals/webasto-repair-manuals/dbw2010-2020-300-repair.pdf

I normally look at a schematic as being in the 'de energized' state, unless otherwise noted. So the relay would be normally open, de energized. The S2 switch in the relay circuit would be at normal temperature 70 degrees (NC).

Hope this helps.

Hector

[flyu2there]

O.K....talked to Webasto pretty much came down to the brain. Mango sent one out and I hooked it up...NO HELP.

The pre heat thermostat only operates if the ambient temp is blo 32f....so that's outta the equation.

Back to the ohm meter to look at continuity...then another call to Webasto Tech Support.....

Running out of Airspeed, Altitude and Ideas.............


John

[Jon Wehrenberg]

John, I am late to this party but step one should be to keep the wings level...

I guess if it is not firing the first question has to be if it is getting power. I cannot translate my Webasto operation to Mike's because my coach is a 24V model that uses PLCs to convert the pushing of a switch to the closing of a power circuit. As long as mine works I don't work my way backwards to try to figure out why it works.

Mike's, like yours may have a less complex circuit, and the pushing or flipping of a switch is likely to close a circuit and send power to the Webasto control. Once it is affirmed you are getting power to the unit then the trouble shooting should follow the Webasto diagnostic recommendations.

We have learned the Webasto is voltage sensitive with low voltage creating funky types of malfunctions. I have a spare 24V Webasto control but unless you have a 24V control it will not help. If you do I can send it to you or we can hook up at one of the rallies, TN or NV.

[flyu2there]

Jon,

Thanks for the input. The Webasto and I will show up in Nevada, too late for TN as business got in the way.

I am thinking a faulty ground here somewhere because I have followed the checklist to the letter, at least twice! Both brains...same thing. The pumps run (although they get their signal from the CC Motherboard), the fan DOES NOT START, seconds later the ignition fires. It tries for about 30 seconds and then throws in the towel....I have power where I am supposed to have power (I ground to the chassis) it is just that neither brain will power the fan and fuel pump and gawd knows what else. The photocell checked out ok, all that other stuff is as it is supposed to be and I can jump the brain and everything works, including the fan. I have talked to three different Webasto Tech's and have Three different answers.........I think there must be multiple grounds on the brain. The absolute only other possibility has to do with the motherboard....gawd I hope it's not there.

I now have about 24 hours of apprentice Webasto Training, sitting on my proverbial arse in the gravel, outside. My disassmbly time is noteworthy...I can split the case, pull the coil, pull the fuel lines, inspect, re align the ignitors, ohm and re assemble in about 10 minutes. The only thing that is showing signs of wear, aside from my bottom, is the super cotter pin....it, like me, has about two more times before we both give up and order a new Webasto!!

John

[Jon Wehrenberg]

John,

Verifying the presence of power will go beyond seeing a specific voltage on the multitester.

You may be right on the money with respect to bad ground or it may be on the power side of the wiring.

I had a device in my current coach that would not work. I started testing for power and it read on the high side on my meter. Yet when I turned on the device it would not function. As it turned out there was corrosion at one of two fuses in the circuit and while the circuit would carry current, there was enough corrosion to limit the amount of current it would carry effectively giving me the false impression the device was getting power, when it was actually suffering from low voltage due to the resistance caused by corrosion. As soon as any load was applied the voltage dropped significantly.

From your description of the cycle can you measure the voltage at the device through the various phases of the cycle that you see? It seems that some portions of the operating cycle less affected by low voltage such as a fan motor are working, but when the real load kicks in, that being the fuel pump which I think pulls some amps the cycle seems to come apart.

I cannot address the CC interface because in our installation a command to start the Webasto closes a relay supplying power and from that point on only the Webasto brain handles the various functions and phases. I think our circulating pump is exclusive of the actual Webasto brain and other functions.

[MangoMike]

I would think that the coil, which is firing, would draw as many amps as the fuel pump.

The brain is getting power and then starting it's cycle as shown by the coil firing. And we know the brain is good. And we know that power directly to the motor starts the motor. So is it a wiring issue from the brain to the motor? I would double check all those connections again on the A connector.

I'm really stumped on this one and it seems like FlyInTheWeb has tried just about everything.

Mike

[gmcbuffalo]

John
When the brain in by webasto was questionable I order one from the company and ask if this wasn't the problem, ie after hooking it up it didn't solve the problem, if I could return it. They told me that as long as I didn't put in the holder clips and only hooked up the plugs I could return it. In my case it was the problem.
GregM

[gmcbuffalo]

John
Another thing to check is if there are any butt crimp connection check them to make sure a wire has not been pull out an not making full contact.
GregM