Broken down @ Marathon - Jon to the rescue!

[ajhaig]

This morning as we were leaving Marathon FL, I noticed that the bus was not airing up properly. After having spent nine days and mucho denaro at Marathon, I couldn't subject myself to dealing with them any more. We were literally broken down in the Marathon driveway and I was prepared to have the coach towed 180 miles to Prevost Jacksonville (yes, it was that bad)! So, I did what all good POGer's do, I called Jon.

After 15 minutes, Jon had the problem pinpointed to a bad part (I'm not sure what the thing is called) in the leveling system and he walked me through the procedure to replace it.

I went to the parts counter at Marathon and they didn't have what I needed in stock. On my way back to the bus I ran into one of the techs and I told him what was going on. The tech (this guy is a rose among thorns) went rummaging through an old parts bin in the garage and found the part I was looking for and gave me a few pointers as to how to install it.

Within 30 minutes we were on the road, THANKS JON!

The Marathon service department knew that we were having a serious problem and they made absolutely no effort (with the exception of the one tech) to offer any assistance. I felt like road kill in their parking lot. More on that horrible Marathon experience in my next post.

[garyde]

AJ. Was this a burned up Solonoid and did Marathon work on this system while you were there? I'm not understanding why they wouldn't help.

[ajhaig]

Gary,

Indeed it is a burned solonoid and Marathon did extensive work in that area. The solonoid was oozing brown stuff and stunk which made it relatively easy for Jon to diagnose over the telepone. I'm at a loss as to how they overlooked it.

It seemed like we had a different problem each day. They'd fix one thing and another thing would break. By the time this last problem arose, we just wanted to get out of there, and clearly the feeling was mutual. Needless to say, it was a very frustrating experience.

AJ

[jimshoen]

When I bought my 1997 Marathon last Winter I drove it directly to Coburg to have some equipment upgraded and serviced. The coach had not been to the factory since new. I spent over 40K in Coburg and unfortunately was treated like a nuisance by Marathons' Sevice Manger Pat Sprenger. I spoke to Steve Schoellhorn (President of Marathon) on two occasions about the situation and his comment was that he (Steve) 'deals with lots of rich people'. I got the message real fast that all these coach owners must be made of money and use to poor service. I shut up, bent over,($85 to have a license plates installed,four bolts) and paid to recover my coach. Then last summer on a trip from Reno to Portland I had a big leak in the air system, Norgen valve at drive axle. I pulled into Marathon (Coburg) on a Monday (after I begged Pat to look at it) and they diagnosed the problem and Pat scheduled me to have the problem repaired the next Friday at 1 PM. I arrived on Friday at 12:45 and unloaded my family (7 children, wife, codriver and myself). As usual, Pat greeted me with a scowl and a cigarette. The coach was pulled in and two hours later the Tech told my driver that he had not worked on any of the air suspension valving in over 5 years and had no idea how to hook up the valve and make it work. I walked in to see Pat, and in my most humble posture ask if Pat could get the Tech some additional help. Pat became very angry, told me and my driver that he was going to pull the coach out and we could get the hell out of there. At this point the vehicle was undrivable. Then he suggested leaving the coach until Monday when they could look at it again. Oh, they seem to close up early on Fridays. At this point my wife was so mad that I was looking at loosing half of everything I own. Finally the Prevost rep showed up and helped the tech hook up the Norgen Valve.
We finally escaped about four thirty and had a late night arrival into Reno. Marathon was in such a hurry they did not bolt the valve back to the frame and used a nylon tie to hold it in place. In any case, my wife has forbidden me from ever taking the coach the Coburg facility again. Twice burned is enough. As Pat is the Service Manager in Coburg his temperment could be telegraphed to the other facilities, I do not know. One thing is for sure, you will pay top dollar for any work done by Marathon and Pat is mean.
Sadly this experience was my introduction to Marathon. I very much like my coach and it was well built in 1997. The parts people, the tech support people, and the sales people at Marathon are absolutely great to work with. The disparity in the treatment I received between Pat and everyone else is unbelievable. All I can figure is that Pat must be related to the Schoellhorns.
Thanks to everyone responsible for forming and running POG, you are terrific. Finally, Marathon builds a great product, there is no doubt about that. Building and selling coaches is their strong point. It appears servicing them after the sale is much lower on their priority list. The money must be in the sales, not the maintenance?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

AJ....you are welcome. I am glad to have helped.

I think that stories about poor service are going to get more frequent, and I think owners of coaches are going to be provided with only three choices. The first option is to bend over and let the service facilities have their way with you. I can assure you that owners that do that will not be long term owners.

The second option is to find service centers that know and understand the coach, and that treat you fairly and with respect. They are out there, but a good one today may not be so good tomorrow because the real problem is hiring and retaining skilled personell. Those that do a good job need to be recognized and supported.

The final option is for the owner to learn his coach. He does not have to be able to spin a wrench, but he does have to have enough understanding to be able to guide or manage the repairs or maintenance on his coach.

I get phone calls, emails and PMs from owners with problems and almost every time the owners are literally sitting at a repair facility and the techs or managers are taking advantage of the owners, not necessarily because they are fraudulent, but because they do not necessarily understand the coach or its systems.

Rarely have I spoken or communicated with someone when the problem was insurmountable, serious, or really expensive. Those situations, such as a failed engine are obvious and the solution is very clear. Almost all of the time the problem in question is as simple as a failed circuit breaker (not a bad inverter), a leveling system valve (not air bag leaks although they do leak), or a misplaced wire. It is my opinion that as our coaches age they tend to have a lot of little problems that are annoying, but not crippling (shame on the owners for not dealing with the details). A mechanic or tech tends to see the big picture instead of addressing the single isolated problem that brings the owner there.

[truk4u]

A J & Jim,

What an eye opener! All my dealings with Marathon has been in San Antonio, FL and the service there was absolutely first class. You should post those experiences on the Prevost-Stuff Discussion Forum with hopes that it gets back to Marathon. Maybe they have lost site of the little guy with an older bus and want to cater to the rich and famous. Bad move on their part.:(

[MangoMike]

Trukman, Great idea about the re-post on Stuff.com.

According to Broker Phil Cooper the average guy keeps his bus 18 months (longer sometimes in the 2 bus club). So if you're a current Marathon owner good chance you'll up grade to the same, letting the guys on the top of the heap buy new or close to it. Thereby providing a conduit for new sales for Marathon. All the more reason to keep everyone, with the not-so-new, busses happy, to keep the supply chain moving. Simple economics.

I think everyone should post both their GOOD and bad experiences with all vendors here. Believe me the reports will start to filter to the top.

My experience with Kelly in parts and their service center in Dallas has been superb.

Mike

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Truk, with all due respect....the guys with the older coaches that the repair facilities would like to go away are truly the folks that will spend the most money there and should be at the head of the list. Yes, they need to take care of the new bus owner because they want him to buy another, but in warranty work they piss away money through a 3 inch fire hose. It is the guy driving the older coach that is providing the cash flow to keep the doors open.

And finally, there are more old coach owners relative to new coach buyers. If I wanted to maintain a reputation for customer support I would cater to that group because they are so used to getting screwed, if they have a good experience they will shout it from the rooftops. Right now Marathon is going to get spanked, and it will affect every potential customer when they read it.

[0533]

My judgement day with Marathon will be coming soon. The day I arrived in Coburg to inspect my current coach (PDI) was the same day that Jeff Gorden was to take delivery of his new Coach. Jeff of course was not there, his drivers I guess, but the whole place was a buzz over this event. I was convinced that my inspection and time, and attention would be placed on a back burner. In stead I had most of the day with my salesman (Phil Cornelius) half a day with Pat Springer, Service manager, Mike the forget his role, another employee, whos job was to answer and explain any questions, and generally show me how the coach worked, take me for a test drive. My overall start to my relationship has was very good.

The coach with only 30,600 miles, sat for long periods at the factory when its original owner was back in Switzerland, but it was maintained. I purchased it technically on Nov.1, 2007 and have had everything that was questionable upgraded to be as new, from the paint to the audio, complete prevost maintainance, anything that did not function correctly, had the air, hydraulics, slideout, plumbing etc, upgraded, just wanted it to leave like new if that is possible. Now this experience has been interesting. There have been moments where I had to remind them about quotes, tell them how I deal with people, trust and all of that.

The delivery will be the final word on this subject, everyone has been professional. I also belive that Marathon realizes that a first time buyer if treated well will be a customer again. I think it is important to remind any vendor about the relationship between the customer and the company, and to always ask for, and expect the same treatment that Jeff Gorden gets, even if you are Bruce Harris.

I spent three days in Coburg when I was inspecting, buying and planning on upgrades. The day I left, I was standing in front of a glass case in the lobby with pictures of famous clients, Nascar folks stars etc. As I was leaving, I asked them if they wanted me to send along some pictures of my wife and I, some historical images, accomplishments for their case. I think they got the point.

Bruce

[jimshoen]

Jon, You are spot on again. I purchased a medium size tool box and have been happily collecting tools to work on the coach since last April.
After some fits and starts, I have developed a relationship with Smith Power Products in Sparks Nevada (Allison Detroit Diesel). There is one mechanic there named Arturo 'Arti' who I allow to work on the coach drivetrain and have had good experience with them. The Service Manager is Todd, good guy.
Several times a year I go down to Phoenix (it is both South and down hill from Reno) and have had good experience with Chris Weaver at Desert West Coach, DWC. They are a POG sponsor and I can recommend them. However, as you said, it really depends on the specific tech that lays their hands on the coach. DWC has the ability to service these vehicles and the owner, Wayne Mullis, is almost always there and happy to talk with you. Some of you may know the DWC story, but Wayne was the largest roofing contractor in the US at one time, and after he sold his business he bought a coach to travel in. Soon he discovered there was no one to service the vehicles, so he formed and runs DWC.
Tom, While my coach was at Marathon I spoke to Steve Schoellhorn on several occasions about Pat and had some e-mail communication also steves@marathoncoach.com. I guess I could have called Steves' dad, but that probably would have been way over the top.
Jon and Bruce, Kelly, Phil, Mike, the receptionists, the techs and everyone else at Marathon is great. However, when the head guy in Service is so abrasive, what the heck do you do as a newbie customer? Join POG of course!
Bruce, Best of luck to you with your delivery in Coburg. I am sure you will like the bus. Remember these are machines and are always in need of care and feeding.
I poured a nice concrete pad on the side of my house so I can now work on my bus. This is a major improvement. Sent a check to Jon yesterday for the cool bus stands.
Prior to seeing AJ's post I was very closed mouth about the unbelievable experience I had with Pat. I want to maintain a good relationship with Marathon and was actually in fear of retaliation, black balled or what ever. I have a lot of damn money tied up in this toy.
Buces' comment, "There have been moments where I had to remind them about quotes, tell them how I deal with people, trust and all of that", sums up the problem. As a customer we should not be required to teach Marathon how to interact with their customers. That is the same BS I went through. Steve needs to get down on the floor and see what is happening to his customers and spend less time planning the next most fantastic vacation for the Maritime Club.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim opens the door a little to what may be the concerns of some owner. He mentions fear of retaliation. My first reaction is that I am sure a lot of coach owners have that concern, whether they express it or not. I think to a degree it may be a justified concern if the coach has a lot of proprietary features.

But rather than irritate a converter to the point where the service manager or the management really do want to retaliate I would think that the best path is to quietly step away and take your business elsewhere. Even on the most sophisticated coaches, with the greatest amount of converter installed proprietary operating systems there is an extremely high percentage of the coach or the house portion that can be worked on by anyone reasonably competent. By stepping away from a deteriorating situation you are preserving the future ability to get assistance when you truly need help.

I think each converter has to some extent their own proprietary devices or control systems in our coaches. That is the stuff that we as owners should save for the experts to repair or replace. But if an owner just doesn't respect or get along with the converter go find someone else to do the repairs or begin training yourself.

[Jim Skiff]

If Jon had't reached ROCK STAR status yet, he has now.
And I thought Obama was on a roll.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

If Jon had't reached ROCK STAR status yet, he has now.
And I thought Obama was on a roll.

JON FOR PRESIDENT

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Cmon, AJ.....document your experiences.

[jimshoen]

Jon, Quietly going someplace else is exactly what I did. However, when I saw AJ's post I could not control myself anymore and threw caution to the wind. Last August 3rd when I was at the Marathon Coburg shop there was another Marathon customer getting the same treatment as AJ and I. I felt real sorry for the guy. He was in his late sixties or seventies and was completely at a loss for what to do and had no fight in him. He sat there silently and took it, what a shame.
Marathon, Liberty, Featherlite, Prevost etc. would do themselves and their customers a big favor by reading what we are all saying on these chats about maintenance issues. A quick reply by the builder on a problem would reduce phone calls into their tech support and get the information out to many other customers. Plus, I can rarely write as fast as the tech guy talks. Having it in writing would be great.

[ajhaig]

In thinking about our recent experience at Marathon and in fairness to Marathon, I thought I should point out that we had a very positive experience when we went to Coburg on two occasions last fall. Many of the people, including Pat, Leon & Jim, actually remembered building our bus (although this is most likely because it was built for a well known country singer) and seemed to know the systems inside and out.

I also thought I should give an example (I could pick from many) of what has me so disturbed about our experience at Marathon FL.

The initial problem that brought us to Marathon was leaks in the air system. Our coach has a remote air-dump on the curb side that we never use (with the exception of a mishap in a parking lot). Rather than spending time and money troubleshooting the air-dump, I asked to have the line disconnected and capped in the steer bay. The tech capped the line (but capped it after the regulator, leaving a potential weak link in the system). After I paid my bill I noticed that I was charged 3.2 hours to cap the line. When I questioned the amount of time, the service manager called the tech into his office (with me still in there) and questioned him about the amount of time he had billed. It was incredibly uncomfortable for me, as a customer, to stand by watching this tech, who seemed like a good guy, get grilled by his boss, and it went on for about 10 minutes. I even told the manager that I was uncomfortable and that I wanted to just forget about it and asked for my invoice back. In the end, I was credited back two hours. Incidentally, I later discovered that the regulator that was left on the live end of the system had a major air leak and had to be removed.

I could go on but I think you get the point.

Maybe they are catering to the rich and famous. One interesting thought is that since Marathon was acquired by the current owners, consumer spending has been on a tear. My hunch is that should the economy enter a consumer led recession, these guys will quickly learn that selling expensive campers is not so easy and attitudes will change.

We very much like our Marathon and I wouldn't hesitate to have it serviced in Coburg, although I'll avoid the Florida branch. Should we get black-balled, so be it, they are not a public utility and they can do business with whom ever they want. I thought about complaining to senior management but figured it would be a waste of my time; Jim - thanks for confirming that. As the old marketing expression goes, "Good customers don't complain, they just don't come back."

[garyde]

In any Service buisness your going to have good and bad experiences. When your traveling, on vacation, with a time limit, I get very anxious if I don't get fast, reliable, efficient service.
I am sure the people that work at these facilities feel the constant grinding pressure.
No excuse for being rude but understandable in the busy seasons.

I remember having to have my Boat repaired on a vacation to Northern California and the fits I had because my vacation was slipping away and it was going to take days to repair the boat. That pressure was certainly being felt by the service manager and the mechanic.
I have to be thankful those guys were there to save the rest of my vacation for myself and my family.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

AJ is really restraining himself because I know most of the story about his FL visit, and the dollars it cost him. He is being a real gentleman here, and if Marathon is reading this they need to contact him and apologize for his treatment, and find out what they should do to make amends.

Jim S, I am going to have to brag about Liberty and will take whatever heat anybody cares to dish out. Liberty is not perfect and they have some design issues that really need to be improved, but in then nearly 2 decades I have owned a Liberty Coach I have never lacked support. Ever. Every phone call for help always ended to my satisfaction. I always had the answers I needed and the information necessary to correct any problem. On the few occasions I have had them install or service something the work has been first class and has been done to my satisfaction with no need to bring it back for repairs.

Liberty has been the standard by which I have measured all other businesses I have done business with, and I have not yet had dealings with any other company that has measured up to their standards of customer support. Fire away guys, but don't expect me to change my opinion. BTW, I do think our comments are read by converters.

[truk4u]

I can't argue with Jon anymore on the Liberty thingy, they have their act together.

I feel the same way about Parliament, my last two visits for service were outstanding.

Marathon - Hello, hello, is anyone home!

[jack14r]

I agree with Jon about Liberty,s response,attitude,and service.All the service techs that I have dealt with at Liberty are well trained and seem to be very Quality conscious,as well as just good guys.I will be in Stuart on Monday for some minor warranty work,I look forward to the trip.Even though Marathon Florida has some apparent problems in service,I have nothing but praise for the work they did on my 2001 XLII on two trips to their Florida location.

[0533]

Its funny how a single day can result in a totally different experience. I live in Jupiter Fl., less than a half an hour from Stuart, and was intent on finding a way to make a purchase from the folks at Liberty. My experience was only with their sales department, but I walked away with the feeling that these guys could hardly give me the time of day. They were unenthusiastic, and I felt like I was doing business with typical So. Florida sale people.

If I had only been introduced to the entire business, and not just the sale side, I might own a Liberty.

It only takes one bad encounter, on a day when your contact is off his or her game to reck the entire relationship. I find that if the business doesn't meet the "Feel Good Test" up front, then its best to move on. I moved all the way to Oregon. I have to say that I have an unfortunate Bias against So Florida businesses, and have done my best to try and work through my own deficiency in this regard. I find myself looking for flaws up front, I may be part of the problem.

[Jerry Winchester]

Whereas I have only had a few experiences with Marathon, they have all been positive. I needed some trim and interior parts; they sent them to me for free. I need technical assistance; they call or e-mail promptly.

But my expectation is different. I didn't buy a coach from them, new or used, so I don't expect them to jump thru hoops for me. I also didn't want to buy a coach from a dealer or converter as I didn't want to pay the premium for the jump thru the hoop service. It all comes at a price.

Now I would add that even though my phone experience with Parliament was okay, I would not take my old coach there to sell it and I don't think Mike's experience there was positive either.

I think Jon's point is valid in that the more educated you are on your coach and it's systems, the more unlikely you are to get skinned or grossly disappointed.

I am sure we can wear this subject out and get nowhere. I have had three experiences with Prevost Ft. Worth. Two of them good, one bad. Would I go back? Sure. Unless we just want a forum to vent, I say we need to poke a fork in this one; its done.

[tdelorme]

There you go!! JDUB done put out another FIRE.:):)

[Alan__]

Man, I totally agree with flaming this one out. My experience with service has most often been in line with my attitude and expectations and how I came across to the service department. A bit of this sounds like venting of sour grapes.

I have had several visits with Coburg and Dallas Marathon and Dallas Prevost--all good. Can't believe it is just due to good luck.