Led Tail Lights

[0533]

I am planning on Replacing the tail lights with the newer LED ones. Does anyone have a handle on where I can get them, how much and who installs them?

Thanks,

Bruce

[win42]

You want to discuss this with Dale Journik. He is the best pog source. We did the lights on my 91 and they turned out beautiful. Dale's your man.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I won't go into detail because I lack sufficient information. And to those who know I am an incandescent guy this is not sour grapes....

I have been told some LED assemblies have the potential to fail internally and since the current draw is substantially less than the incandescent bulbs they replace there is a fire hazard associated with the fact the lighting circuit breaker will not trip should they fail.

Some replacement LEDs have an internal fuse or some form of thermal protection and these should be specified and used. The lack of LED assembly circuit protection may not pose much risk on the stainless side of an XL or XLII, however the sides of an H3 are combustible, as is the fiberglass housing of the XL tailights, which I personally know can act like a chimney and allow a fire to travel upwards toward the rear cap.

[0533]

I won't go into detail because I lack sufficient information. And to those who know I am an incandescent guy this is not sour grapes....

I have been told some LED assemblies have the potential to fail internally and since the current draw is substantially less than the incandescent bulbs they replace there is a fire hazard associated with the fact the lighting circuit breaker will not trip should they fail.

Some replacement LEDs have an internal fuse or some form of thermal protection and these should be specified and used. The lack of LED assembly circuit protection may not pose much risk on the stainless side of an XL or XLII, however the sides of an H3 are combustible, as is the fiberglass housing of the XL tailights, which I personally know can act like a chimney and allow a fire to travel upwards toward the rear cap.
Good info Jon. When I spoke with Prevost CA. about replacing the headlights with Xenon, they said the same thing about heat, fuses etc. If I make the switch it will have to come with all of the upgrades to protect against these possibilities.

Thanks,

Bruce

[0533]

You want to discuss this with Dale Journik. He is the best pog source. We did the lights on my 91 and they turned out beautiful. Dale's your man.
Thanks Harry, I will make contact.

[lewpopp]

Bruce,

For what it's worth, I had the LED tail light assemblies instaled about 4 years ago and have had not problems. Purchased them from International Bus Parts in Apopka Fl and had North Florida Bus Conversions install them.

Ask IBP for a lead on who could install them.

[0533]

Bruce,

For what it's worth, I had the LED tail light assemblies instaled about 4 years ago and have had not problems. Purchased them from International Bus Parts in Apopka Fl and had North Florida Bus Conversions install them.

Ask IBP for a lead on who could install them.
Thanks Lew, I am in Jupiter, and will give them a call. What should the entire process cost, parts and install?

Thanks,

Bruce

[Just Plain Jeff]

Now wait a minute here Bruce. A guy from Bath, Maine can put in his own LED's for goodness sakes. Just a' sittin' while the BIW employees jam up Route 1 for endless hours gives a guy the opportunity to think 'bout stuff.

You can do this.

[win42]

One more time. Dalej is a POG member, IBP is not. Dale can supply every part you need including the SS tail light housings. The LED's are 12V your existing tail and clearance lights are 24V. It requires a new set of relays and diods for each circuit. It is not a complicated system to install once you have the parts and good installation advice. Dale J is the man.

[0533]

Now wait a minute here Bruce. A guy from Bath, Maine can put in his own LED's for goodness sakes. Just a' sittin' while the BIW employees jam up Route 1 for endless hours gives a guy the opportunity to think 'bout stuff.

You can do this.
Hello Jeff,

I think you have me confused with someone else. If I had worked at the BIW, it would no longer be the worlds #1 ship builder.

As for the LED lights, I have never seen them in person. if it is a matter of plug and play, then I your man.

I am ok with good directions (which almost never exist, translation is too difficult) but if I get over my pay grade, then watch out, because I will take over the bandwidth on the POG site begging for help.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Harry, Bruce has a 1999 and it has 12V lighting, including the tailights.

[0533]

One more time. Dalej is a POG member, IBP is not. Dale can supply every part you need including the SS tail light housings. The LED's are 12V your existing tail and clearance lights are 24V. It requires a new set of relays and diods for each circuit. It is not a complicated system to install once you have the parts and good installation advice. Dale J is the man.
Thanks Harry, I will ask Dale J.

Bruce

[0533]

Harry, Bruce has a 1999 and it has 12V lighting, including the tailights.
Hello Jon, I have a call into the factory to see what they have to say about this, but I am certain that they will quote some big number. Do you think that it is reasonable to do this myself?, considering my overall skill level. I have two of everything in my many tool bags, even inherited a complete tool box, real fancy one from the first owner (he left everything behind) but I still need the skill to go with it. I need to go to U of POG. for a owners course. Need an instruction book, lots of pictures, big print, and a speed dial hotline to each POG member who really knows the ropes.

Thanks, Jon for your help.

[Ray Davis]

Here's Dale's site, with a pretty good photo gallery How-To.

http://midwestleds.com/lights

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Bruce,

Lighting is plug and play. If you can get the lights that are direct replacement there is no magic. If you need a custom housing there are folks here that have gone various routes and they can tell you specifically where they bought the housings.

Check to be sure a switch to LEDs will not affect any other systems. There was some discussion about earlier set ups affecting the cruise control for example.

I think if you have to change housings the hardest part will be drilling and reinstalling pop rivets. I think the guys that switched lights have posted their experience. I don't think anybody had any serious problems.

[MangoMike]

Bruce,

Here's some info on LED clearance lights over at Prevoman.

2318

http://www.prevoman.com/Pages/Pictures/page2.html

Mike

[0533]

Bruce,

Here's some info on LED clearance lights over at Prevoman.

2318

http://www.prevoman.com/Pages/Pictures/page2.html

Mike
Thanks Mike,

Those look great. I will take a long look at mine when I get out to the factory. When I catch up with you folks in April at the TN rally we can get this underway.

Bruce

[0533]

Bruce,

Lighting is plug and play. If you can get the lights that are direct replacement there is no magic. If you need a custom housing there are folks here that have gone various routes and they can tell you specifically where they bought the housings.

Check to be sure a switch to LEDs will not affect any other systems. There was some discussion about earlier set ups affecting the cruise control for example.

I think if you have to change housings the hardest part will be drilling and reinstalling pop rivets. I think the guys that switched lights have posted their experience. I don't think anybody had any serious problems.
This may well work. my concern and hope is not to have to change out the housing, smaller would be a real problem as I just had the coach repainted. I am always surprised by the factory. They changed out all of the side lights when they repainted, and did this on their own, but never mentioned the idea of changing out the tail lights. My fault, but maybe it won't matter anyway.

[0533]

Here's Dale's site, with a pretty good photo gallery How-To.

http://midwestleds.com/lights

Ray
Thanks Ray, lots of help, can't miss with this type of help.

Bruce

[truk4u]

Bruce,

Stay on the dark side, the force will be with you!

[mike kerley]

Lew, I seem to remember you commenting on the fact your new tail lights were held together with double sided tape and came loose. Was that an issue?

Mike K

[lewpopp]

Mike, your recollection is right. Phew! Dem are awful big words you are using, or was it me?

I was very disturbed to find out that the lens were held in with double-faced tape. I thought it was very non professional. A customer had a converter take it off and all apart and make a more permanent fix.

I have not had any problems over the last 4 years. I do notice a couple are slightly loose when I wipe the stainless down every morning. Ha ha. Otherwise I am very satisfied with them. I think they're very classy.

[Darl-Wilson]

I just received a CD catalog from IBP.

"Glad to hear the CD arrived. We don’t have a price list as of yet but I will be glad to quote you on any items of interest. I’ve listed some prices below on the LED parts:



M3-00896 Hi-mount stop light kit $183.72 each

M3-00838 6 Stack LED insert $1430.41/set

M3-00931 6 Stack wire harness (2 req.) $108.56 each

M3-00927 7 Stack LED insert $1494.82/set

M3-00932 7 stack wire harness (2 req.) $108.56 each

99-5555PS Polished Housing $1739.94/set (if bought individually the price is $1933.26)"


This was from Steve at IBP.


I was thinking about changing out my rear light assembly to LED. Does anyone think this is a bargain? Remember, I would still have to install these rascals. They look great (IMHO) but how long would it take to recover my bulb savings by using the LEDs instead of the incandescents?

Dale J., jump in here and tell me where I am going wrong.

Thanks,

Darl

[lewpopp]

I guess nothing is too expensive when we all hang out with guys that talk thru their ass and say"I don't care if fuel goes to $20 a gallon, I'm still going to see this country.

I've said enough

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I wonder how much Harry had into his retro-fit. He did it from scratch.

This is how I was going to do it.
14 oval LEDs (7 a side) with pig tails with rubber grommets, build my own harnesses.
Then I would use 2 pieces of aluminum (cuts and bends way easy) and bend them in a brake cut the oval holes with a jig saw and polish it to sparkle better than stainless, fasten it with nylon spacers to prevent electrolysis.

What would 14 LED's w/pigtails and 2 pieces of aluminum set a guy back. Peanuts. Maybe 100 bucks a side plus my time.

One could use stainless if you preferred but I'm not to sure how easy it would be to cut those oval holes. Dale & Harry would know.

Hey Lew you know your neighbor is up in Jacksonville running up a tab at 100 bucks an hour, looks like you have had very little influence.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'm waiting to hear all about the cost savings from the LED crowd.

I had to replace one incandescent bulb on my coach this year. I anticipate I may have to replace one or two more in the years to come so let me know how much money I will save by switching to LED lights.

Instead of bling, bling the only sound I hear is katching, katching.

[phorner]

Cost recovery? Ya gotta be kidding me...

If you like the look (and I think they look great) and don't mind spending the cash, go for it!

But don't try to justify the expenditure by talking about the "savings" there will be... I don't see how there can be any meaningful recovery of cost.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

There is an honest man. When Paul wants LED lighting he does not try to BS Janice into believing it will save hundreds in bulb replacement costs, but instead he mans up and says he wants them because they look good.

Way to go, Paul.

[rfoster]

Jon:
Man - up? A real man does not ask for permission-- he ask for forgiveness.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

A real man doesn't ask for permission OR forgiveness. Unless it is close to bedtime.

[MangoMike]

Let me hear from all the real men out there that brought home a Prevo after telling his wife of 18 years he was picking up a 25' Winnebago.

Mike

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Do you really want to hear our opinion of that? I'm not sure where the line is between fearless and celibate but it is somewhere in between the two.

[MangoMike]

...Well there was some couch time following the arrival of the Liberty.

mm

[JIM KELLER]

Mike, If you pulled that one off YOU ARE THE MAN !

[rfoster]

Couch time? Anybody else would have been eating cold pork and beans with crackers- but since you know how to cook - well I guess you warmed up your beans

[Loc]

Savings with LED's?

I saved about $6.50 on incandescent lights for the old taillight stacks on the XL when I replaced them with the LED stacks from IBP. The lamps had burned out and needed to be replaced. Of course the cost for the new stacks was close to two large installed. So the net was $1,993.50 to the negative. They installed them with Sikaflex and to my knowledge they are still attached to the XL. However, I understand that the purchaser liked the LED's so much that they paid at least $25 more for the bus so the actual net negative was less. I really liked the LED's and the light that they put out, but for me it was certainly not about saving. I just figured the kids could go to a state college instead of private. With the new bus I am thinking that high school may be sufficient.

[Jerry Winchester]

Loc,

A few more trips over to Birdland or some AC covers and they may be going to HISD. You are the man.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

An FYI for all you suffering out there in "WARM LAND".

In my snow driving experience I noticed that a fault of LED lighting is that they do not generate any heat to keep them free of snow and ice.
I am talking about the marker lights and not the brake lights.

If you plan to drive in snow country, I recommend you change all your LEDs to incandescent as a safety measure. You see if you have to stop periodically to uncover your safety lights you are putting your self in harms way, lengthening your trip, and expending more energy to clean them than you are saving by not having to change them as often because of the LEDs longer life. :rolleyes::D

This is to say nothing about the fact that even as you go around cleaning them in a storm the first one cleaned is likely to be covered by the time you get to the last one. :eek:

:rolleyes:JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Vindication!!!!!!!!!

A big raspberry to all of you turkeys that made fun of me for avoiding LED lights.

And a big thank you to Jim C. for being a man and telling it like it is.

Life is good.

[dalej]

If you alter your life for a problem that represents less then 1 percent. Then you loose the joy that represents more then 99 percent.

LED's rule, just look at the tail lights ahead of you! :)

[Kevin Erion]

Snow, what is that?

[rfoster]

Boy that must have been some serious snow. Those LEDs are bright if you look directly at them.

If a fellow has a set of factory marker lights (incandescent) with stainless shrouds (very attractive) and offered to trade those factory lights for those used snow covered LEDs- what do you think?

You would need some quick connects, well nuts, and rubber foam sealing gaskets. And the want too.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I don't trade my Bling for nada. :p
I was just informing the audience what a downside was for LEDs.
I will not be experiencing the snow again any time in the foreseeable future.

Warm Bling is better than cold safety any day!

JIM :)

[Loc]

Jim,

Did Jon send you a check for the snow comment?

Loc

[Jon Wehrenberg]

In the interests of full disclosure, when driving through snow it doesn't take long for all of the rear lights incandescent or LED to be completely snow covered.

I have never had the side lights covered with snow, but I have had the back end so thick with snow the lights imparted a pink glow to the snow.

I'm sticking with my incandescent lights. Its the way nature intended a Prevost to be equipped. LEDs are as tastefull as spinner hubcaps.

[rfoster]

Bah humbug

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Hey, I saw snow on your truck Friday. Why don't you move south, like to Knoxville.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

No Loc, no payola.

[truk4u]

Stay on the dark side!;)

[Jerry Winchester]

If you drove faster than 62.5 mph the snow wouldn't be a problem.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I did once. I think I hit 63 mph. I got so scared that for a minute I wanted to trade my plane for a Vee tail.

But I got over it.

[lewpopp]

I know for a fact that you exceeded 63 mph going to Kerrville. Remember when Jan(Dale) practically climbed out on the roof of the lead bus to take our picture side by side. She should have gotten some sort of award for the risk.

I'm sure it was around ,well, 65 or so.

[Tully]

I am not interested in doing a full blown switch over to LED lights.

The new trailer I have on order has led running lights. I wanted the three
marker lights on the Prevost to match.

Where can I get a 24 Volt marker light that is a plug n play? I have searched high and low with no luck.

Again, just three marker lights on each side is all I am looking to do.

Would I need a relay for each and every light?

Can some one give me a link for just the marker lights on the side of bus?

Thanks,

Tully

[bluevost]

Tully,

DaleJ is the man for LED's. I think he and Jan are traveling now, but try to get ahold of him.

Ken

[Petervs]

If you want the lights to match just get them from the trailer manufacturer.

If the bus is 24 volts and the lights are made for 12 volts, all you need is a resistor (of the proper ohm rating) in the power feed line going to each LED fixture. Radio Shack sell them for peanuts. The power draw is so low on LED lights that a very low power resistor will be adequate. They might cost $1 each max.

Anyone who understands electrical systems can calculate the resistor specs for you if you have the LED power draw number, or can measure it with a multimeter and get you the answer that way.

[stevet903]

Plug and Play? Not really.... Grote makes a 24V amber marker that will work. Model number is 47353. Ryder Fleet Products has them for $9.29... What a deal!! However.... It doesn't match the existing lights, so you may end up wanting to replace both. It doesn't plug in, you need to buy the 67070 pigtail to go with it. Since the current lamp is grounded through the mounting screw, you need to buy a set of stainless screws to screw the ground wire to the side of the bus, and a cobalt drill bit to make a new hole. The positive wire needs to be cut and a new bullet terminal crimped on to go on the other side of the pigtail. Since the rubber well nuts are 20 years old, you'll probably need to replace some of them. You'll find you'll need longer mounting screws if you use new well nuts. Finally, the new lights are wider than the old ones and need some sanding on one edge to sit square to the side panel, since one side sits on the rib (at least on my 89 XL)..... It's nothing too difficult, but definitely not plug and play.... If you are still interested I can post where to get the well nuts and bullet connectors...

[Tully]

Yes, please post where I can get the well nuts & bullett connectors.

The old lights have the metal bracket. Once taken off and new LED light installed, is there room to tuck this pig tail in? Not certain how big it is or actually what it looks like.

Tully

[Tully]

Looked at the Grote site. Looks like the metal protector bracket that goes around my current lights will not fit.

What type of bracket or cover did you use?

Tully

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

http://www.prevoman.com/Pages/Pictures/page2.html

[tdelorme]

Tully, call IBP and see if they don't now stock 24 volt marker lights. I don't see them on their web site but they sell a lot of things that are not listed.
http://www.ibpindustries.com/home

[Orren Zook]

Looked at the Grote site. Looks like the metal protector bracket that goes around my current lights will not fit.What type of bracket or cover did you use? Tully

Grote also makes a 24v lamp with a standard wire connector that does not require a special pigtail, and you're right - the chrome branch deflector won't fit but, you can use the existing mounting holes and wire connector that Prevost uses. I just went around the (white) base with black plastic edge molding. I'll post a picture for you in the AM.

[stevet903]

I think IBP sells the same Grote 24V markers for about $25 each...

You will need 2 8-32 well nuts for each marker. I got them here:

http://www.ribetproducts.com/product.php?productid=7537&cat=0&page=1

I got the bullet connectors at Ryder as well - part number V84 12267. The Grote pigtail uses a .180" bullet instead of the more common .157".

The local hardware store was the source for the 8-32 machine screws. I'll take some pictures and post them tomorrow, as well as get the length of the screws.

Steve

[Tully]

Thanks Steve,

Tully

[stevet903]

Here's what the Grote lights look like...

[stevet903]

Here's what the pigtails look like under the markers. The screws I used were 8-32 1 1/2".

[Tully]

Thanks for posting the pic's Steve. Got a better idea on the pigtail.

Tully