Newbie Needs Help

[doodlebug45]

We just introduced ourselves in the New Member Forum. We have been searching for a Prevost suitable for our needs and ran across POG in the process. What a relief! There is a dealer in a city close to us that has a 1993 Marathon that looks to be in excellent condition. They are in the process of fixing a few problems that are normal for an older coach but our initial impression is that it is a great unit and just what we need. I got a copy of the Marathon Retail Invoice and it says the V.I.N. is N-975, the production number is 0208XL and customer name is Buddy Gregg. We are confused by the year because the plate in the engine compartment says 1992. The date on the Retail Invoice also said 1992 but this has been crossed out and 1993 written in. The date on the Prevost Car Inc. "Coach Final Record" is December 1991. What is this unit? Is anybody out there familiar with this particular unit? The other thing that is of some concern is that this bus is incredibly well priced according to our research at $149,000. Grandma used to say "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" but grandpa used to say "if its too good to be true it usually is". We have a ways to go yet in our purchase process but any help you experts out there can provide would be immensely appreciated. By the way, I have owned motorhomes since 1971 and had my Bluebird for 8 years. I'm a "shade tree" mechanic who works on his own boats and restores cars for fun. I was also a hobby farmer for years and know my way around heavy equipment.

[VegasDogMan]

Vin Number is not unusual to be year earlier than date on converter invoice.

Coaches are built in Quebec, shipped to converter and finished sometime later.

For example, My Feb 97 Liberty has a Prevost Oct 96 build date. Coach is sold and registered as 97 even though VIN says '96

Need to decode a VIN? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number

[garyde]

Welcome. Buddy Gregg is a Prevost & Motorcoach Dealer in Texas & Tennessee. If you have real interest in this Coach, find a reliable 3rd Party mechanic or Prevost Service center and have it checked out. Do not rely solely on anything the individual or Dealer is telling you.
You can also call Marathon and get a History on the Coach that would give you some clue as to usage .

[doodlebug45]

Thanks guys! this is useful stuff. The VIN data was informative as I have the whole number and was able to check it out. I will follow up with both Marathon and Prevost to see what data they have on the unit. I can't seem to find an authorized Prevost shop in my area but we do have a very good Detroit/Allison shop that I will get in to for a checkup. I will try to find a bus shop that can look at the rest of the chassis. Perhaps a charter operation might do it. The dealer is having all the AC checked out by a reputable shop that I know. I am told the coach has OTR, Cruiseair and dash air. It has all been upgraded to 134 he says. He is also putting in 6 new 4D AGM (Lifeline) house batteries and the other batteries are also quite new. It bothers me a little that it has Toyo tires on the drive wheels and Michelins up front & tag.

[jack14r]

The N code which is the 8th digit from the end of the serial number tells us that the coach is a 1992 shell production date.On this forum go to miscellaneous items and then go to VIN # BREAKDOWN and Jon's post explains the years for the letters.The great thing about owning a Marathon is that they still support all their coaches and you can get help 24/7.They also have great parts people and service techs.Good luck with your search and welcome to this board.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Doodlebug....

Over the years the issue of VIN numbers, build dates, model year, etc. has created questions and concern among buyers and owners.

The converter decides the model year for the title on the coach. It is possible to have a shell with one model year and the title to have another. In the final analysis the actual year on the title or the shell vintage has less and less importance as the coach gets older. Depreciation is a serious concern in earlier years of a coaches life and very little concern as the caoch ages. On an older coach the value is all about the coach condition and maintenance history. On almost new coaches because of the enormous depreciation it is about the age.

For the vintage you are looking at concentrate on all the things that are really important, such as the coach's condition, maintenance, appearance, and the price. The price is only a reference point because I have seen much newer coaches I would not pay that much for, and I have seen older coaches that are a bargain at that price because of their condition.

Don't worry about the age.

[Will Garner]

Doodlebug,

Cummins dealer have a Coach Net Service and are listed on the Prevost web site as authorized for Chasis services. If you have a Cummins dealer locally you might try them for a chassis inspection. Tour bus operators in your area that do their own maintenance may also be a source for chassis inspection and advice on where to take the candidate coach for an under body inspection.

[BrianE]

Hugh,
Welcome to the nuthouse. Considering the age of the coach you are interested in I would take extra care with getting a good mechanical survey prior to purchase. While tech info, support, and some history are readily available from Prevost, D.D. and Marathon, the history of a particular coach should be a major consideration. Good maintenance records and contact with the previous owner are oftentimes not available when buying from a dealer. Be insistent for historical info, it will pay off. The 8V92 is a great engine as you probably know from your boating history. In a bus installation the engine is challenged by heat and if not operated sensibly can be a hidden time-bomb. It would be advisable to have it dyno checked if possible. If the bus is located anywhere in the northwest I would be happy to add a second set of eyes to your inspection. My contact info is listed on Dale's map in Quick Links Best of luck. Incidentally, some of our favorite trips have been in BC and our old '92 handles the terrain like a champ.

[doodlebug45]

Once again, thanks guys for the latest round of input. The info from Jack and Jon on the VIN question has been very helpful. Jon's comments were very helpful and allowed me to get my head out of my ---hands--- and start focussing on the more important issues. My usual style is to buy something and, if I like it, keep it for just short of forever so resale is hardly an issue. I practically gave my Bird away to a huge family who love it like crazy. The last time I saw it kids were swarming all over it and mom and dad were smiling like cheshire cats. Will's note about Cummins dealers and tour bus operators was useful and I plan to check that out tomorrow. Brian's comments were valuable. I have asked the dealer I am working with on the 93 Marathon if he has any problems with me taking the coach to the Detroit/Allison dealer for a checkup and he says no problem. Funny thing is that with all the boats I've had, I have never had one with a Detroit. Cummins, Hino, Volvo but never Detroit. I now seem to have all the major systems covered with the exception of the chassis/suspension. Thanks for the offer of another pair of eyes Brian but I think I'll be OK. Besides, my daughter emailed a few days ago from our ranch near Edmonton where the coach is located. The temperature was -51F and the wind chill was -62F!! I won't even go there when its that cold. My rough plan at the moment is to get everything checked out the best I can and if things look OK, I'll do the deal. The dealer has offered a 30 day warranty on the whole coach. I will likely run down to Marathon in Oregon for a checkup and continue on to the Prevost shop at Loma Linda. That way I will have the shakedown cruise and a complete checkout. I am also looking at alternatives and keeping an open mind. The cold weather here has been a real challenge but I'm hoping it warms up fairly soon. I hear our local groundhog says it will. There's still lots of room for this deal to go sour but we're moving forward. Sure wish I could get more of that historical data that Brian mentions. Every piece of info is useful and welcome so keep it coming if you've got it. Thanks to Jim for that note on searching for coaches. I will keep you all posted on the progress of this drama. I hope it doesn't become a comedy! Stay tuned!!

Hugh / D'Bug

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Hugh,

Don't let MPD get in the way of judgment. It is a big purchase and when you do the inspection before even taking it to Prevost or Marathon operate every switch, device and system. That way you not only learn the coach, but you know what works and what does not work.

Keep close track of how things operate because this is also your learning experience. There are a lot of switches, buttons, and controls and gauges. They all have a purpose. Somewhere on the POG site is information about the pre-purchase inspection as well as a wealth of information on the systems.

Personally I put a lot of value on appearances and if the coach looks unkept, has a lot of little issues such as seemingly minor cracks, nicks, dings and tears, and its running gear like the engine and generator are dirty or grease covered it tells a whole lot to me about how much care it has received.

This is a buyer's market and as a buyer you are in control.

[doodlebug45]

Thanks Jon. I'm way ahead of you there. I printed off your inspection document and am using it as my bible. It is a great piece of work! The overall condition of this coach is probably what really struck me on the initial inspection. The next trip will be "button pushing day". I plan to make a check list from your document and my wife will be following me with the video camera. I plan on at least 2 cups of coffee before starting so that all 3 brain cells are up and running. Memory cells seem to be on extended vacation but the video should help. In the boat world we use "marine surveyors" anytime we are seriously contemplating a purchase. They have a very specific approach to checking out a boat. I have a great surveyor and will be using his report from my last boat as a "go by" for the coach inspection along with your stuff. I will report back. Thanks to all for the continued support and advice. BTW, is MPD a disease that can be treated with anything other than money injections?

Hugh (D'Bug)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

MPD is incurable, but as you may surmise it is treatable but the cost is quite high.

I am of the opinion any coach can be an excellent buy as long as the purchase price reflects the dollars it will take to make the coach suitable for one's needs. Remember one thing and that is we owners are sometimes willing to accept something not being quite right but that does not make it OK. As a new owner you need to know everything works, or if it does not work, what it will take in terms of money and time to fix it.

I often look at the deal breakers first. In order they are the engine, transmission, the rest of the drivetrain and undercarriage, generator, tires, batteries, AC systems, and so forth. If you are not familiar with the various systems, how they function, their limitations, etc. I would urge you enlist the aid of someone who has that understanding.

Are you qualified to judge and evaluate the AC and heating systems or the house AC and DC voltage systems? Do you feel comfortable you can determine the condition of the leveling system air bags and valves? Are you going to get under it and check the braking system? I'm not trying to discourage you, but if you have some issues with some of the systems described you can make $5000 evaporate in a hurry unless you are prepared to do the work yourself.

I noted Brian offered to help. Unless that imposes a hardship on either of you that will be another set of eyes and since he would not have a dog in the fight his evaluation will be impartial. BTW, he has been up close and personal with the dirty side of his bus so he brings some expertise to the table.

[doodlebug45]

Hi Jon. At this point I have almost everything covered to my satisfaction. The only hole right now is to get the suspension/drive train checked out and I am close to a solution for that. Engine, transmission, AC are all being looked at by qualified pros whom I know and trust. I will be handling the DC/AC systems myself along with my master electrician buddy. Fact is that the coach system is not all that different from the many boat systems I have worked with over the years. In some ways the coach system is actually more simple because I don't have to worry about galvanic corrosion among others. I just had to replace a thru-hull fitting in a forward bilge just because the ground wire came off and it corroded in less than 2 years. I completely agree about knowing every system and how everything works. I do have a truckers license and airbrake certification so airbrakes are no mystery to me. My Bird also had air brakes but I realize every system is different. I also know Kenworth, Peterbuilt and Western Star systems. I sure don't want to sound like I know it all or that I'm not grateful for offers of help but so far I think I'm okay. All the advice about what to watch out for has been invaluable. There still might be some holes to fall into and I will holler for help if that happens.

Hugh (D'Bug)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

At the risk of sounding like a smart ass, air the bus up and let it sit.

If it hasn't leaned left or right by the third or forth day it currently has a good suspension system. If it stays where you left it for that length of time without leaning, and it is cold out you have a keeper. If it leans, and you want to be cruel, make the seller cure the leans.

The brakes are just like in trucks as you would surmise and the standard pre-trip brake check will verify their current condition.

Brake lining thickness will require you to get under the coach or use a good mirror. The only thing you won't really be able to verify is if one of the springs in the emergency brakes is broken. I may be out of step with others on this, but in the absence of proof the airbags and the brake chambers have been replaced a reasonable time ago I would treat them as the first on the list of things to do so their true condition is relatively unimportant as far as the coach inspection goes.

Sounds like you have matters well in hand. Good luck.

[doodlebug45]

Hi Jon. That "lean" test sounds like a good idea. We are going to take the coach for a few days just to check things out so I'll try that then. The seller has replaced all the brake linings but I will check anyway. Hopefully they checked the brake chambers at the same time but?? I get under everything I own including boats so I will definitely be under the coach. I have heavy duty jack stands for that purpose. I lost an uncle that way once. Today I have been in touch with the Western Regional Service Manager for Prevost who directed me to the shop that looks after all their stuff out here. Turns out to be not many blocks away from where the coach is sitting. Their checklist is longer than the one I had and the price is quite reasonable. Prevost was also able to tell me that the coach had 2 outstanding recall notices on it. Both had to do with flexible hoses to the brakes so I have told the seller this must be corrected. Is it standard for Prevost to supply a spare wheel and tire for their shells?

[garyde]

I don't know of many Prevost owners that carry a spare except for maybe Jon. Dale might also, but it has been said that it is too much of a hassle and a danger to carry a spare.
A cell phone is a lot less weight .

[doodlebug45]

Hi Gary. You may be right but about 6 years ago the lack of a spare and no cell service somewhere in the middle of Montana turned into a very expensive and uncomfortable 2 day adventure in my old Bird. An onboard spare could have saved me a thousand and a day & half. There are still lots of places with no cell coverage. For me it would just be a comfort thing. I certainly have no desire to change my own tire but sometimes ---!! I carry spare props for my boat too but I've never had to change them either but if I had to, I could. BTW, I've had 2 front tire blowouts on the Bird, one on each side and both at about 65 mph. Safe landings in both cases but I did have to change my shorts after. Both of them were in the middle of nowhere.

Hugh D'Bug

[Just Plain Jeff]

Do NOT buy this coach! Please provide the name and contact information for the seller and we'll take care of the details. It's probably unsafe. :D

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Hugh,

Back in the good old days we carried a spare, already mounted on a wheel I polished on both sides. Never used it.

If you lose a tire, put it on the tag, raise the tag and drive slowly somewhere for service or call for roadside service as Gary says.

I do carry plugs, and if I get a puncture I can repair it temporarily with a plug.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Hugh, if you feel you must have a spare, just in case!
Carry the tire only and a set of tire irons, then if you need it you have it, and if not you can store towels and polishing supplies in the tire when not in use.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If a person is worried about the space a Cruise Air takes up, carrying around a 100# tire he will likely not use and eating up valuable bay space is probably not going to happen. BTW, that spare tire is aging like the other tires and so the economics start to enter into the equation.

Unless the tires are old and unless tire pressures are not regularly monitored an owner will not blow out a tire (except for pieces of steel debris on the highway) but will have problems with the valve stems not seating or punctures.

[doodlebug45]

Thanks guys. This is useful input. I think Jeff is right so here is the contact info for the seller 1 800 nic-etry.

Jon is right of course! I wasn't thinking about the tag which I didn't have on the old Bird. I also carry plugs that are a temporary quick fix for a puncture. Just the tire is a thought Jim but I know for a fact that I can't mount a tire that size on my own, especially on Alcoa rims.

I won't go looking for problems where there probably are none. There are enough other things to worry about. Are there any inflation monitoring devices worth looking at or is it best to do it the old way?

Hugh (D'Bug)

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Thanks guys. This is useful input. I think Jeff is right so here is the contact info for the seller 1 800 nic-etry.

Jon is right of course! I wasn't thinking about the tag which I didn't have on the old Bird. I also carry plugs that are a temporary quick fix for a puncture. Just the tire is a thought Jim but I know for a fact that I can't mount a tire that size on my own, especially on Alcoa rims.

I won't go looking for problems where there probably are none. There are enough other things to worry about. Are there any inflation monitoring devices worth looking at or is it best to do it the old way?

Hugh (D'Bug)

You can too change the tire yourself! Jon does it all the time! Hugh, even if you didn't do it yourself it would be there for any tire service to use. If you think you need the piece of mind carry it for a while and then let it go when you see you don't need it. You wouldn't carry a new one, so it should cost next to nothing.

[BrianE]

Hugh,
Check out this link to a previous thread on the forum. As a result of that thread I installed the Dorian Pressure Pro system and it has worked perfectly. I was cautioned by the folks that I purchased it from that I might need the signal booster accessory in order to get a reliable signal. I didn't and the range is adequate in my bus. Joe Cannarozi installed them on his bus along with a second set of valve stems for normal airing up, a good idea. Included also is a link for Pressure Pro.


http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?t=913&highlight=tire+pressure

http://www.doranmfg.com/tirepressuremonitors.htm

[Just Plain Jeff]

Thanks guys. This is useful input. I think Jeff is right so here is the contact info for the seller 1 800 nic-etry.

Hugh (D'Bug)

Heywaitaminute here.

I just called the indicated number and got a Escort Service. I am sure it is the kind where they help you get down the road with an overweight vehicle.

Hmmm. Maybe I misdialed.

Lemme check again.

[doodlebug45]

You are right Jim. It can be done with a lot of brute force and 4 foot long tire irons. I like Jon's idea better. However, if I have the room I might take one along just in case. Lack of the right tire size was my big problem in Montana. Thanks for the link to the previous forum Brian. That was very useful. I do like the idea of monitoring temperature too. I found out after the fact that both my frontend blowouts were due to temperature problems caused by improper installation. The blown tire was brand new and I had to haul it with me for warranty replacement. Gee whiz Jeff, I don't know what happened there. I accidentally gave out my super secret phone number. I'm not sure if they handle overweight vehicles but they are specialists in oversized loads. We better not take this any further! I checked the other number I was going to give you but I see its not fit for publication. I'm heading for the next stage of inspection on Monday. I'll keep you guys posted.

D'Bug

[truk4u]

D'bug,

When I bought my CC, the guy had an almost new spare in the bay. Since I have lots of room, I keep in there knowing that at least I won't have a tire size issue if and when I have to call the service truck. As for changing it myself, no way, those days are over for me.

I check pressures often, it's a 5 minute deal and bump them at every stop.

[doodlebug45]

Thanks to everybody for the help and advice so far. As a result of all your input, I am still busless which is probably a good thing. Your advice and knowledge helped me avoid some costly mistakes. However, I am still moving forward but very carefully. I would be happy to help any TBC members quit the club if you can fit within my budget. I will continue my search comments and questions in the "Target Practise" forum.

D'Bug

[Bill1170]

We also need help in buying a Prevost after having been Foretravel owners for years. We went on a fact finding run to Sanford and San Antonio just to learn about different conversions and see what they had to offer in used coaches. We are looking at an '04 CC at Featherlite, VIN #2PCW3349621027920. (orginally sold by Buddy Gregg) The second coach is an '03 Royale, at Buddy Gregg in TX. Stock # 8079 Both are d/s. We are trying to find out whatever we can about these two coaches. We are just beginning to learn and appreciate any help or comments. CC

[garyde]

Hello Bill1170 and welcome . This can be daunting. First you have the Bus built by Prevost, then you have the Convertor. The Bus can come with many options and so can the conversion.
Its best, I believe, to make a list for each on what you want or need to learn more.
All Convertors are different in what they install in terms of equipment and interiors . This can lead to endless questions but it is well worth learning more about what Country Coach offers which is different to what Royal or another Convertor offers.
Prevost shells are not all the same either. The Convertors order them to their specifications for heating and cooling among other things.
So, take some time to ask questions here and get a feel for what Prevosts are and what each Convertor has to offer.

[jack14r]

Bill,The serial # of the country coach tells us it is an 02 shell,it will always be an 02 shell and valued as an 03 conversion.The date code is the eighth digit counting from the end.The converter can title these conversions as they want to,buyer beware!!! There have been many updates to the Prevost slides in the XLIIs,some of these updates came during the year model that you have an interest in.I have been told that the 03 and later shells with slides are the ones you want to consider.Keep asking questions and good luck hunting for that special coach.

[Bill1170]

Thanks, Jack. We have just looked at an '03 Royale, VIN # 2PCW3349721027781 at Buddy Gregg in Dallas that we are considering. It's only has 31,000 miles and looks to be in great shape. It supposedly has had two owners.
Any comments about this particular coach or the Buddy Gregg dealership?
The '04 Country Coach seems not to really be available...we never even got to see it, and the salesman doesn't even know where it is...Featherlite seems to be undergoing big changes. Bill1170

[Bill1170]

Thanks, we have learned about how to tell the year of the shell and that the conversion is usually a year newer. We are now looking at an '03 Royale at Buddy Gregg in Dallas. Only two owners and 31,000 miles. Clean as a whistle with lots of extras. We are going back out to look at it again. Anything you can tell us about Buddy Gregg's service? Thanks, Bill1170

[tdelorme]

I always got great service at Buddy Gregg, Dallas. Nice little no charge camping area with full hookups. The service guy will come out in the morning to get your coach and keep you informed during the day as to how things are going. I had ride height problems on a Country Coach that several shops had been unable to resolve while we were on a long trip. When we got back to Texas, the guy at Buddy Gregg fixed the problem in a couple of hours. Buddy Gregg Dallas is a first class outfit. One of the service writers is a little snotty at times but the guys working in the shop know their stuff.

While you are in the area, go over to Marathon in Arlington and ask for Chad. They always have several nice coaches and this guy will take good care of you. They also have a good shop.

[jack14r]

Bill,I would imagine that you can get a great deal in this uncertain economy right now.I know that 2006 double slide Royals are selling for around 600k,check out Phil Cooper's web site because he has prices listed and some 02,03,05 coaches.When I look at most other sites I reduce the price on the newer coaches by 150-200k,because they have built in this extra for trade in's.GOOD LUCK and keep us posted.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This is just an observation, and because I am not a buyer should be taken with a grain of salt....while it is always nice to get a bargain, and for bragging rights you cannot beat it when you "steal" a coach, but I am of the opinion the price should be secondary to the coach.

There are some really cheap coaches out there, especially since Legendary went belly up and Vantare started dumping. There are fewer buyers than there are sellers so the prices are going to be depressed. But no matter what you buy, it is still a depreciating asset, and unless you are going to flip the coach soon, I suggest the coach should be what you really want, even if it means paying a little more.

This is a small community, and folks talk and folks are aware of what people have paid for coaches. If you buy cheap and then expect to sell high, you really need to understand this market sets prices based on what it understands the market is based on reported prices. Your cheap coach today will be a cheaper coach tomorrow.

I am hearing XLII coaches at the low end are banging up against $300,000 and if the past is an indicator that will drag all XLII coaches down proportionately depending on age. I would much rather get the best coach for my needs, and pay a fair price than to get a cheap coach, hate it and wish I had something else.

[Bill1170]

Jon: I Appreciate Your Comments. I Will Have To Agree With You That Finding A Coach One Likes And Thinks Is Right For Them Is More Important Than Just Price. Also I Hope The Dealer Will Be Good In The Long Run.thanks Again , Bill

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Bill, if you are new to this and especially if you are not inclined to be hands on with repairs (at least not until you get to know the systems a little) add support into the equation.

Some coaches such as Legendary are orphans, and while they are not likely to be that difficult to service a newcomer may be overwhelmed. Do some research on posts on this forum and you will get a sense of what coaches are fully supported, who supports them, and you can decide how to begin the process of focussing on a specific coach or converter(s).