Bus starting problem SOLVED

[Danss]

MY problem with starting the bus from the front was believe it or not, a bad run start switch in the rear which was the only place I could start the engine. Switch was $21.00 plus 2 hours labor to run it down. I would have never believed that the very switch I was using to start the engine was causing the problem As we all know the buses are a work in progress! Thanks to everyone for the help. Dan

[Ray Davis]

Great news!

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Happy days Dan,
glad it all turned out so inexpensive.
Your no start problem goes to show that when trying to run down a problem, you can't rule anything out until proven otherwise.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

You mean the selector switch that chooses between front or rear start?

[Danss]

Jon, it was the switch that has 3 positions. Down position says normal, middle position says off, up position says something in French and it has to be in the up position to crank from the rear by pushing the starter button just below . It is a Toggle switch. Hope this clarifies location. Dan

[garyde]

It's always interesting to hear what solves the problem. When looking back at all the suggested advice, I''m wondering why the rear switch was not tested. Are we missing an opportunity here. Shouldn't there be a logical step by step method of problem solving an electrical problem? What did the mechanic do that all of us combined did not do or think of doing. Are we missing the boat on helping one another.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

We were close. If you remember Gary, Dan suggested he had a dumb question about double checking that switches position.

If that ever happens again we gotta good place to look now.

Chaloupka should have suggested that, he's the culprit.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Dan....that is great news and as Joe said we were almost there. I think I posted to check for power at wire 84 at that switch while someone was turning the key.

If power was there, but not getting to the start solenoid it had to be R4 relay or the switch. Your bus repair guys did good.

[tdelorme]

So, Dan. I may have missed it in an earlier thread, but where did you take the bus for repair? Sounds like the guy has his "stuff" together and it's always good to know where these folks are.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

We were close. If you remember Gary, Dan suggested he had a dumb question about double checking that switches position.

If that ever happens again we gotta good place to look now.

Chaloupka should have suggested that, he's the culprit.

Yea ,Yea, blame it on me.:p It was in fact the Murphy's law within the Peter Principle that did it through the (POG) computer diagnostics (garbage in garbage out):D:D

[Danss]

Took to BusGroup garage in Slidell, La. Their service manager maintained a fleet of Prevost charter buses for a number of years and came highly recommended. Lucky to find place 22 miles from my home. Jon, you did say check that area but do to my limited knowledge about electrical stuff I gave up and went looking for help. Everything would be just find if we all lived about 20 miles from you!!! Thanks again, Dan

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Dan I have found a similar garage for stuff like OTR A/C. These are great finds.

What I have noticed is when they see me pull in with a motor home I get pushed to the back burner. After the house fleet (50+ Prevo) and a large group of other charters that are regular customers that rely on that garage. Often when those go down they need them repaired and rolling again, yesterday.

Worth the wait, as you say a large fleet and years of experience.

The guys up here are a bunch of Italians, it's always fun, untill ya gotta pay:rolleyes:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This kind of diagnosis relying on internet postings is very difficult. It is hard enough just communicating, but what this lacks when trying to solve all but the obvious problems are those subtle clues that we can get by being right there.

It is great your problem was a simple one. And even greater that it was fixed.

[MangoMike]

I had the same problem with that switch, except the failure was manually caused once by Jon, once by Truckman and once by JDUB.

mm

[Jon Wehrenberg]

It wasn't a switch failure....it was an adjustment.

[Jerry Winchester]

Look Taco Boy, I ain't never touched that switch on your coach. In fact, wasn't I the one who produced the photo of A1 with his prick tongs on that very switch in your coach?

If my coach fails to turn over when I hit the key and one of you A-holes is within a zip code of me, I go right out and check that dude out.

[Jeff Bayley]

It's always interesting to hear what solves the problem. When looking back at all the suggested advice, I''m wondering why the rear switch was not tested. Are we missing an opportunity here. Shouldn't there be a logical step by step method of problem solving an electrical problem? What did the mechanic do that all of us combined did not do or think of doing. Are we missing the boat on helping one another.

Gary- I know your not knocking the forum and just looking to improve but it made me think this. This forum on it's worse day is better than any shop on it's best day if you ask me. I tell other bus owners that I got my monies worth from joining on the very first post. The brain trust gathered together here is sooooo very helpful. I jump in on occasion and try to help if I can just because I feel like I need to try to give something back to the group instead of just asking for advise. After 4 years of ownership I still consider myself a green horn when it comes to these buses and tracing down problems.

On your switch problem, the old saying........."It's always in the last place you look". Dat's because the looking stops be-tause it gots' fixed.

[MangoMike]

Gary,

Just becasue you're the electrician in the group don't be so hard on yourself. After all it's the Christmas Season.

Joy to the World. ;)

mm

JDUB, ok you're off the hook.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary,

I cannot speak for anybody else, but trying to trouble shoot problems via this medium is difficult. For example, we knew the bus started from the rear so the R4 relay and the starter solenoid were off the table for analysis.

Wire 84 comes from the key switch to the toggle switch, and if we were hanging around the coach we would have asked someone to try to start it while holding our meter to it. If we got juice there, but no start there isn't any among us that would not have put the OHM meter across the toggle switch terminals. We have disjointed conversations just because of the remoteness of us, our buses, and our computers. If we could be doing this analysis in real time I think we would have nailed it.

I hope I'm right because we need everybody to feel confident that if they are in trouble this is the place to turn to. Unless you are near a Prevost service center or a converter there are few folks out there offering service that have a clue about these coaches, and almost zero about the house.

[truk4u]

As Jon pointed out, it's tough enough trying to trouble shoot via the forum and when you mix in the various owners abilities or inabilities, I think the group as a whole does a great job. Maybe as time goes forward for at least the Prevost portion of our buses, we can come up with sort of a troubleshooting sheet for a given problem and possible remedies. This would be a good place to start, since Jon already outlined various steps for Dan to follow. Maybe a new button on the POG page for "Troubleshooting".

I will volunteer to help.

[MangoMike]

Great Idea!

I wouldn't have had the Gonads to buy a bus, except for the help I found on Stuff.com (pre POG) and specifically mentoring by Jon. It gave me the confidence to make the big purchase knowing that if I did have a problem there was someone to turn to besides Prevost and Liberty.

Jon mentioned in one post about solving an overheating problem of somebody on the road. Well that was me in The Mothership heading to Myrtle Beach for Thanksgiving a couple of years ago. Stopped at 3 truck stops and the only person to solve my problem, by phone, was Jon. Otherwise it would've been cold turkey on the side of I-95.

Mike

[Danss]

I read every post by everyone on this board and have learned not to be afraid of the maintenance of these machines. We all know that they are a work in progress at all times. Just like a Boat, they will never leave the dock without something that needs fixing , however that is part of the joy of ownership believe it or not! At my age the bus is on my mind a lot more than other things that you young folks think about , so it keeps me safe and secure!
There is so much knowledge available on this board form Jon, Truk, Joe and others which has been shared with me when I needed help.
So again thanks to everyone, and if I do not see you before Easter hide your eggs!! Dan & Jo

[bill&jody]

hmmmmmm.......
i had exactly the same issue in charlotte, nc during april of 06. finally figured out the problem by shorting the leads on the back of the switch with a screwdriver. bought a switch at advanced auto or napa, problem solved.

i had just installed a brake controller for the trailer and thought i'd f*d something up in the electrics. somehow, the switch just, well, died.

pretty amazing dan, mango and i all had the same switch die. doesn't truk have a plane?

wmm

[Kevin Erion]

When I got home with the XLII it was time to play with a few things when I would take a break from cleaning. The rear start switch and engine bay lights would not work, one more thing for the bunch list later!
Of course I took the day off from cleaning the bus,or I don't think I would need the bunk coach in the future, maybe a park model because my wife would get the house in the divorce.
So, I was sneaking around the bus and thought I would look into this rear start issue. I was finding no power to what I think is needed for the thing to start, there is also this "safety" switch with a Prevost label mounted to the panel with all the large breakers. It is labeled On and Off, I tried both directions and still nothing.
I then went to the ignition key that has been working perfect, now nothing, well I didn't make fire works with anything so life should be the same as before but I find that sometimes I will take 1 step forward and 2 backwards.
Back to that safety switch, it was in the off position so I turned it on, went to the key and all is good again, but still no rear start and engine lights.
I decided to try with the ignition key on, went to the back and I now have lights and a rear start. What good is a rear start switch and also why should I have to turn the key on for engine bay lights? I can see that you would never leave the lights on and drain theattery but I think it kinda defeats the reason you would need lights in the engine bay. My 99 did not have this safety switch and I am sure you could do a rear start without the key on, and the lights would work without the key also.
Any ideas,

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Kevin...who knows the logic or thinking of the engineers? Have you looked on the Prevost Car site at the wiring diagrams for your coach to see how Prevost had it set up? That might give some clues.

The original reason as I understood it for rear start was twofold. It prevented anybody from acidently trying to spin the engine from the driver's seat while someone was working on or around the engine. The other reason as I understand it was to save a tech the time required to keep walking back and forth to start and stop the engine.

[Kevin Erion]

Jon,
I will try to find that during the week, I am thinking now that the safety switch is to be used by a tech when he is working around the engine area while a driver might be in the bus. With the switch off nothing will start the engine, driver key or rear start switch.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jon,
I will try to find that during the week, I am thinking now that the safety switch is to be used by a tech when he is working around the engine area while a driver might be in the bus. With the switch off nothing will start the engine, driver key or rear start switch.

Sounds like OSHA might have had a say there?