Pinless Slides

[pognumber26]

I forgot to mention that while I was at Marathon a few weeks ago I saw the frist '07 PINLESS slides...I saw both the Valid and Prevost versions..SWEEEEEEEEETTTTTT !! After receiving a full day pin tuneup ,I was in AWE of this next step in the evolution of Prevost slideouts...

[lewpopp]

You mean to say you saw something before the Southern Command did?

You may be punished severly for this. Never release any info unless S C approves. Just mention it to him and he'll say he saw it or knew it and then it's okay to release your findings.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

R Francis has MPD. He sounds like it will be a new coach every year or at least as often as the converters keep coming out with the latest and greatest.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Here's the link to the Valid slide:

http://www.validmanufacturing.com/slides.php

Valid has tried to enter into the OEM market for a number of years, but was blocked by Prevost due to a NIH syndrome. They have made some interesting products, not the least of which is a Prevost retrofit. Grant something-or-other once said that with their air control system they could lift a front wheel of a Prevost off the ground while maintaining a level coach; but that Prevost wouldn't even look at it.

Lots of people see stuff before SC tinkers with little bits of information. Hey, it's America, all ideas are welcome!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

What I found interesting is that in the Valid promotional information they completely disregard the fact that the minute a Prevost shell is cut out for a slide, the bus falls in pieces unless some provision is made to compensate for the fact that the entire longitudinal frame structure has had a section (or two) removed.

Since some entertainer coaches are now using slides, I would like to see how the structure holds up after 500,000 or 1,000,000 miles. When the slides are extended the shell is not subjected to the vibrations and stresses of over the road travel. When the coach has the slides retracted, and is traveling the shell is subjected to all sorts of destructive stresses. I believe the pins in the Prevost slides in effect make the slide a portion of the structure of the coach and to build one without pins may compromise the integrity of the shell.

[Just Plain Jeff]

I don't think that the conversion side of the Valid slides is a technical decision; it is a business decision. Prevost has a ton of non-slide coaches in inventory and, being a buyer's market, $$$ are lower to buy a non-slide XLII and put an aftermarket slide in it.

There are two cases where Prevost took a coach back into the factory and installed a slide and they said they would never do it again.

So, you go to the next best option.

Have a nifty looking aftermarket slide for shorter money.

As to the Prevost pinless slides, haven't seen them in person. I like the first version: When the pins went in, even those of us who are deaf as a post could hear them go in.

Good stuff.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

I have some reservations about the Prevost slides, and I would be very concerned about non-Prevost slides. Maybe I am too worried about an issue that may be in fact a non-issue, but when you see how the coach is built knowing the structure has been cut in half by adding a slide it does create a concern

[truk4u]

Was in Camp Prevost last Monday in Nashville and talked to a fellow who owned an 05 XLII and was there for problems with the slide. I'm like Jon, just can't be convinced the structure is sound after cutting big holes in the bus. After two CC's with slides and lots of problems, I won't be looking back.:cool:

[pognumber26]

There are HUNDREDS of Prevost slide coaches in use and after speaking with dozens of owners/Several Prevost techs and two major converters, I am of the opinion that the slide issue is a non starter...Prevost/Valid have worked out the problem...I hear more safety issues/stories around tire inflation protocols on TIRES then slide reasons...I also believe the marketplace is a CRUEL sounding board for problems in design and as I understand it, NON-SLIDE coaches are by SPECIAL ORDER ONLY from most converters today... I am not suprised in the CC slide problems, several FORMER CC owners voiced slide problems along with a host of other complaints...The NON PIN version is new but hardly unproven...Prevost like Marathon is a world class company and spent a great deal of time and money in the r&d phase...Evolution happens and living in a DS coach is an AMAZINGLY roomy experience!!! I had the privelage of sitting in on a Prevost presetation on the updated H3-45 shell and was pleased to see the direction of evolution...Our next coach will be a Marathon H3 TRIPLE slide on this updated chasis with the new Marathon computer updates!!! But I have been sworn to secrecy and would have to kill all of you if I revealed anything(ha ha)...I am looking for a CURE for MPD because as Jon says...I'VE GOT IT BADDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!

[lewpopp]

Here I am broken hearted, goin' to drop a bunch and have no choice.

I have such an old coach and I plan on keeping it for as long as I live. As old as I am, who knows. My bride can find someone with Jonbucks and get an updated model if she wants.

Now to what they found. Took it for a ride and it moved a lot down the road. That's good because the tooth never aches when you go to the dentist. So it was inspected upon return and found that the radial arm bushings were apparently allowing the coach to sway back and forth. Markings on different spots were evident of that happening.

That's the good news. Now the bad. I not only need all of the bushings but all of the shocks are leaking or have been leaking. I expect they have been that way for a long while because I'm


sure the oil has ceased coming out of the shocks due to them probably being empty.

I will be here for a few days and I need some more Lewbucks than Lew has. What's a mother to do?

Look up Prevost Jacksonville's address and sent all you have.

They said they would align it for nothing at the end for nothing because of all of my problems. I will say that after I asked to sit down with the branch manager and the service guy at the beginning, they listened to everything I had to say and I wish I had done the same on previous visits.

If these repairs do not completely improve the roadability of this coach, I'll sell the son-of-a-bitch and get a plastic box.

I think the free alignment is a panacea or a peace offering that may not be needed. I told them I want to drive the coach prior to the alignment.

[Jerry Winchester]

So that means when you get the old dog back and the steering is all tightened up, you will be up for a road trip to Santa Fe?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Francis states that slides are universally loved by those he has spoken to about them. I don't doubt for a minute they are a great asset.

But he misses my point. The folks that have conversions with slides don't put on the miles. A non slide coach in commercial service is good for millions of miles and that is the lie we all tell ourselves is the reason we spend the bucks to get a Prevost. We boast to others that our RVs are good for millions of miles and that is why we have one and not a plywood palace.

The reality is nobody with a conversion with slides even approaches the miles accumulated in normal bus service so it is too early to tell if they ultimately will be maintenance nightmares. For those that have slide coaches it is doubtful they will have their coach long enough to see problems. They don't care about the extra weight, the lack of access to all bay space, or the intrusion into that space with structural members. The extra room offsets these disadvantages.

As long as an owner can trade every 100,000 miles it is unlikely he will ever see slide problems. Because Prevost engineers incorporated the slides into the shell there may never be problems associated with the slides. But my concern is that the very structure that makes my non-slide coach so strong is cut in half, and has a huge hole in it. That gives me pause for concern.

Having said that, it is probable our next coach will have a slide or two. I am comfortable because like other Prevost owners it is unlikely we will put enough miles on our coach to expose problems. But I want to see how the entertainer coaches with slide function after 5 or 10 years in service.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lew,

It is amazing. You have related your saga and every expert including Prevost has previously been unsuccessful at resolving your problem. All of a sudden the answer is bushings.

The skeptic in me thinks the previous dollars spent at Prevost should be refunded, or at least credited toward your bill which will be as big as what JDUB will be spending to make his bus have bling.

I hope they are right and your Marathon Manor steers like a new coach.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Slides are plastic coach thinking from where I sit. We were parked next to a brand new Newell at Parliament, which I think is a pretty expensive and well made plastic coach. A brief rainstorm ensued and the owner was flooded. The inflatable seal around the slide was not inflated and there you go. In order to fix the seal, the slide has to be completely removed, absolutely straight on a platform, new seal and test, then reinserted. Parliament deferred the repair job, suggesting they go elsewhere.

As to the Prevost slide, according to one of their sales people, "We got into slides a little late."

Indeed.

The additional space provided by the slide, as compared with the compromises of structural integrity of the coach, diminished/limited accessibility in storage and additional cost doesn't make it worth the buy. No matter how you figure a slide, there is additional mechanism to make it work and that's more stuff to go wrong. There is no doubt that the Prevost slide is likely the heaviest duty slide on the market, but without the flat floor and the above compromises, no slides for us.

Why take a great, uncompromising product and compromise it for the benefit of the marketplace?

If someone loves slides, get the Quad slide Monaco Executive; flat floors, lots of nifty other features not found on a Prevost conversion. A person could probably get several tens of thousands of miles out of it before it starts to go, by which time the original owner likely had traded it anyway.

So, I agree, the slide conversation is a non-starter. Don't buy a slide coach unless you know what you are getting into.

Lew:

You are due money from Josam as well and I wouldn't be afraid to ask for it. How in the world could they have done a proper alignment without noting that the shocks were shot? As we have discussed in person, I am no fan of Josam on a Prevost coach anyway, and you have given reason #2. I suspect that they are going to give you a new alignment because Josam likely didn't do what they were supposed to do both with the shocks and the alignment. (Be aware that Jax Prevost and Josam/Orlando aren't exactly pals).

Save up yer Lew Bucks and get to Santa Fe. We'll take your bus apart and show you all the different pieces and how they fit together.

Then you will know how to reassemble it! What a deal!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

By the time the Lewster drives away from Camp Prevost he will know more about his front end than he ever wanted to know.

But......and this is a real benefit to Lew.....Prevost owns that problem for a year. They stand behind their work and once they proclaim the problem solved Lew can take that bus back as often as required until his problem is truly fixed. The key is to make absolutely certain the work order shows the problem is what it is, and not what work will be performed. If the problem is wander and poor steering control it should state that, and if they opt to replace bushings or whatever, if it isn't right they get to keep working on their nickle until the problem is solved.

Prevost as a matter of policy stands behind their work which is a good offset to the cost.

[lewpopp]

I was sitting in the waiting room worrying about the coach and reading some high class material that some "hig mukkie mucks" left trying to impress their fellow P owners.

I was glancing thru a bunch of mags and started to feel as though I was going to puke. I found 2 aeroplane mags that you planted to make me sick, Jon. You will get yours. I really spoiled my day.

Thanks for the incouragement on the work that Prevost is doing. You can bet your bippie that all of the i's are dotted, etc.

Tomorrows another day.

Jeff: Josam did not attempt to align the coach. The shook it and inspected it and fooled around with the ride height etc. But no alignment. Yes, wouldn't it be nice to be able to get the $175 back after they did nothing but I doubt anyone would listen at all.

I really pray that this work will straighten the problem out for there will only be a few more blips in the road and I will pull the plug on this wonderful life. No pity asked for. I have a really go coach and want to use the money to travel, not to scratch the repairmans back.

Tomorrow's another day and I know you guys are rooting for me all the way.

Might have another member for POG. Gave him an application yesterday. He just bought a 98 from Phil Cooper and his name is Roger Schiffler. See if his name shows up on the need to join list.

[MangoMike]

Lew,

The long and winding road does so for a purpose. However that phrase shouldn't pertain to your steering. Hope things work out as planned.

Mango

[Just Plain Jeff]

You betchya that we're behind ya Lew. Not only that, you might mention to lovely Cindy that the work being done in your coach is being monitored in real time over the internet.

And you thought that was a washing machine next to the lobby.

Hah!

[mike kerley]

Lew, Hang in there "old timer".

There, now that I have your attention.

I think you'll be amazed when you roll out the door there (broke, but amazed). It will drive like a new coach. I'll bet the new shocks make all the difference in the world on the ride.

Life if full of peaks and valleys, you'll climb that hill. If you were not fixing the bus, you'd be fixing the house or paying a hospital bill or something else with less return, so enjoy the day. Hey, you could be married to some 21 year old who is just hanging around waiting for you to drop! ?????? Let me think about that!

[Just Plain Jeff]

Psssst, Mike!

Lew's wife IS 21! Or at least she looks like it!

[win42]

Cutting openings for slides.
We have built several 180 Ft. high 1/4 " plate smoke stacks over the years. Each one usually has large rectangular holes cut into the sides to allow the air to enter. Rule of thumb, each of those openings require a surounding structural collar equal in total weight to the material removed. If someone cuts a hole in the side of a bus for a slide the opening must be surrounded as described above and continuously welded to to the main internal structural members as a minimum. Further structural calculations are required to verify the strength of the structure as a whole including bending moments. I don't know about Prevoust being this careful in their engineering, but I have toured a major Motor Home plant and saw their prized Monocot chassis completed with incomplete welds on the tubing and complete side units hoisted onto the structure and screwed on with a few # 14 screws and on down the line.
With todays computer generated structural design analysis there should be no excuse for not getting it right.
I guess those of us that don't have slides and claim we don't want any will forever try and find reasons for not owning them.
We could order a nice wide modular home put somewhere. But thats not what were about.

[lewpopp]

JPJ, tune in here and straighten this #42 out on the manufacturing of a Prevost shell. He is comparing it to a monococque (sp) which is a piece of crap compared to a p-shell.

[win42]

Lew
You are either reading too fast or thinking too slow. I did not intend to compare our precious p-shell to a Monocot, The point was if any coach has a big hole cut in it for a slide it must have the opening surrounded with enough mass to support the original intended integrity. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. You do a great job of helping us all out on the technical side of our coaches.
I thank you for that.
Harry

[Coloradobus]

To Slide or NOT to Slide.

Our first 2 Prevosts had slides. The first coach a CC 45 XLI had 2 HWH slides cut into it. The 2nd coach, a Marathon XLII 45, had a single slide.
Our current coach is a NO Slide "H".
We had various problems and dilemmas with both slided coaches, so much so in the end we were desparate for a NO slide.
Whew, now we no longer hold our breath to wait and see if technology will work. Such things as dragging external structural slideroom re-enforcement, slides rooms not going in because chassis is tweaked on uneven terrain, or ice getting in the way of slide room operation.
Never had a ny leaks like others we know have had, but we're glad for no slides.
Even if we intend to sit for longer periods, a no slide coach is the only way for us.

[win42]

SLIDES
Read the previous thread from Coloradobus.

If it can't be done right, don't do it !! I REST MY CASE.

Harry

[truk4u]

Hey harry,
You didn't ruffle Lew's feathers, he gets that way when he forgets his meds and he's very frustrated that he can't be in Oshkosh since he loves planes!:D

Slides? Bus said it all and I'm the same way after 2 CC's with problems.;)

[Just Plain Jeff]

I've gotta tell ya that slides in the long run are the bane of simple over the road living. Hitman Frank says that he could build a business just fixing slides that go out of alignment, leak, etc., etc.

With the new Prevost 3 or perhaps 4 slides, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

At the risk of overloading Lew's brain, and simultaneously stirring the pot, slides make perfect sense if certain conditions are met. First and foremost the frame must be one like a trypical truck. That way slides can be installed above the frame and the frame is never compromised. Second, the mechanism must be such that the slide moves in or out perfectly straight, a likely expense no manufacturer will incur, and lastly, the seal when retracted or extended must be perfect. CObus had experiences with slides that did not meet any of the conditions, and I don't see anybody meeting the conditions for the future either, although I think Newell meets the first condition.