Demise of My Service Pit

[dale farley]

I started digging my service pit last Wednesday. Paulette took the attached picture early Saturday morning when the pit was about half way finished. By the end of the day Saturday, I had a 20' pit with perfectly straight walls with a footer and ready to pour the floor. I was going to pick up the rebar this morning and pour the floor this afternoon. There's more to this story.

[dalej]

It's looking great Dale, keep us up to date with more photos. Paulette is probibly liking your hard body workouts!

[dale farley]

As Paul Harvey would say, this is the rest of the story. Because I knew it was supposed to rain sometime over the weekend, I had taken precautions to build a dirt wall across the end of the garage to keep out the water. I had also attached long drain lines to my gutters to funnel the water away from the side of the building.

What I hadn't counted on was 6" of rain last night. When I went out this morning, I realized the water had run over the batter boards on the side of the garage and entered the area that I had graded for my slab. From there it went in the pit taking the sides with it. My pit was 2' 8" wide Saturday; it is now between 5' and 6' wide. It was 4' 4" deep, it is now a little over 2' deep. Very discouraging!

The first picture shows the pit with part of the water in it. At some point during the night, the pit was completely full and running over. The second pictures shows the pit after most of the water was pumped out. When I first went out this morning, I was strongly considering taking the loader and filling it in, but after mulling it over for several hours, I think I have convinced myself to start over with an even larger job than it was in the beginning. I am sure there is a moral to this story, I just don't know what it is at this point.

[dalej]

That is just no way a nice rest of the story.

I can only imagine how that morning felt, you go out and look, turn around head back to the house, ask Paulette to make a fresh pot of coffee and then start to blame Jon for the pit idea.

[dale farley]

Maybe that is why I've felt so rotten all day. I didn't have anyone else to blame.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Dale,

I wish I lived closer. I have a Bobcat 334 and I would love to be able to stick on the 39" bucket and dig that pit for you.

That hurts to see all that work having to be done over.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Wow Dale, sorry for your plight. With that kind of rain, you may have Alligators when you get it concreted in. :eek:
Your ground looks like sand, so that might not be as bad as clay, but to have to do it over that sucks!
How are you going to keep that kind of rain out when your finished?

[dalej]

Dale, I forgot to ask, who put the pink safty ribbon up? :)

[dale farley]

Jon, I too wish you lived closer. It is taking me an average of 182 shovels to fill the loader bucket each time, and I have emptied it many, many times. In 1987, I worked until the wee hours of the morning developing a presentation for work on a Comodore 64 computer. When I was almost finished, I kicked the power cord, lost it all, and had to start over. I felt that same sick feeling this morning when I saw the pit.

[dale farley]

I put up the ribbon to make sure my horse boarders didn't wander too close to the pit. I knew there was a possibility they might cave in the walls. So much for that!

Once I finish the concrete, I plan to install a 10" retainning wall the length of the building to make sure no more water gets up against the side of the building. I thought about this before and thought it might be a nice addition, but I now realize it is a necessity.

[garyde]

Hi Dale. Were you planning to form the side walls or to use cinder block. I think if you clear out the pit & pour the floor of the pit, you coud then use cinderblock for the sidewalls. You may have already thought this thru so just a thought.

[dale farley]

Gary, I was originally planning to pour the floor then build a box form and place it in the pit and pour around it. I had the hole the exact size to allow 4 inches of concrete all the way around the form. That is going to be a little more difficult now. I am now thinking about building two walls; one to hold the dirt and the other for the concrete. All this is going to complicate my procedure for installing the rebar.

I haven't thought about using blocks. I am not sure that would be strong enough. Not sure it wouldn't either. I am open to any suggestions, since I have a while to wait until the ground dries out a little before I start digging again.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The walls on my pit are poured concrete. Whatever you decide to do the only requirement is to make absolutely certain that you eliminate any possibility that there will be side loads on the walls so the pit does not collapse inward when the weight of the bus is near it.

There is likely a modest pressure on the floor when the bus is on the tires, but as soon as you place stands under the bus and support the weight on them the concentrated weight puts a much heavier load on a very small area of the floor. All those loads are vertical, which is good, and they remain vertical unless the floor thickness and the base beneath the floor is such that it fails to support the load.

My floor beneath the bus is 7" of reinforced concrete and beneath that is a generous base of 1" crushed stone. I know from the various jobs I have done that support stands and jacks can get placed as close as several inches from the pit. If there is any question about the concrete supporting that weight then there will be a need for substantial steel plates beneath the jacks or supports to spread the load.

[MangoMike]

Dale,

I can offer no advice, just support. Bummer.

I guess that's where the term "pit in my stomach" comes from.

Mike

[Denny]

Dale,

There are cement blocks made for retaining walls. I believe they are 10 and 12" blocks and have a recessed area on each side of the top of the block to place rebar in a horizontal position. I used them for a retaining wall when building my garage. I have at lease 6 feet of fill sand behind the wall and they have not move. I also put vertical rebar in and filled them with concrete since the area is on a slope and there is a concrete drive on top of the fill. Four years later there has been no movement.

Denny

[wrongagain]

dale,
not to be kicking you when you are down, but given what just happened, after you get this done whats is going to keep it from being your new service pond.
just a thought.

[dale farley]

I think I am going with the concrete block walls. Once the ground dries enough to remove the dirt, I will form and pour the pit floor then lay the block wall. That seems to be the most logical solution at this point. Thanks for everyone's input.

[garyde]

Hi Dale. 6"x12"or 8"x12" block will work. You should have #4 rebar minimum for verticle reinforcement, every block or 16" on center. L shaped so that it is part of your slab pour. If you speak to a supply house, they should be able to point you in the right direction as far as guidelines. There is a standard drawing for 3-4 ft. retaining walls which you should use as a guideline. I can e-mail one if you like.

[rmboies]

I think I am going with the concrete block walls. Once the ground dries enough to remove the dirt, I will form and pour the pit floor then lay the block wall. That seems to be the most logical solution at this point. Thanks for everyone's input.

Dale, sorry to see what happened to your pit after all that hard work! We use cinderblock alot here in the south. Two of my barns were built with cinderblock. In the stall areas, we built the walls with wire between the block, put re-bar in the top openings of the block,(which is a little tricky to do since the blocks are layed in an alternating design), and finally we poured concrete from the top to re-inforce the walls. The walls have never cracked and if one of the horses kicked them, I guarantee you they only did it one time before they learned the wall was certainly stronger then their 1k bodies:D Good luck!

Debi

[dale farley]

Gary, Send me the drawing. Thanks.

[dale farley]

Over a month from the time when my pit caved in, I now have the block layed, the rebar and wire in place, and the concrete scheduled for next Monday.

Jim C. should be happy, because I added rebar to every block. I knew if I didn't, and it ever caved in on me, Jim would say, "Poor ole Dale would still be alive if he had listened to me about that rebar."

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Looking mighty fine Dale.

You will not believe how easy life becomes when it is easy to access the bottom side of the bus.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

You did it right and you know it! :p

I LIKE IT* For what that's worth:D


It looks like you've done this kind of work before. Did you son help you or just give it his blessing?:D

[dale farley]

Jim, I haven't done it before, and don't necessarily want to do it again. I am sure my son blessed it since he didn't have to do any work on it. If it just won't rain now until I can get it poured/finished Monday!

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Dale a few pointers then:
Be sure to have your tools ready when the concrete truck gets to the job.
You will need:
Oversize boots that pull over street shoes
Motor driven flexible shaft vibrator or (probe with a length of rebar)
Shovel
Rake
Some kind of hook to go around and pull up on the rebar to be sure it is not on the ground. (I see you have yours supported elevated, so just check here and there)
Pole float
Trowels and edge finishing tools
Sledge hammer
Hammer, spikes, saw, extra wood for form repair or changes, all just in case!!
Wheel barrow in case you can not get the truck everywhere you need it
If you have a good tool rental around you may be able to rent everything you need.
For any extra concrete have a place to dump or a small form for some odd job.

When finished with the pour, but when your still humping the driver will want to know where he can wash out the truck. :eek: Being in the country you may not care where this is done but be ready for the question, or tell him NO to wash it in the Barrel.
When the truck gets there, the driver will want to get going and get the job done, NO PUTSING AROUND!! He will expect you will know what to do and do it. He will add a little water for you (DON'T ADD TOO MUCH that weakens the cured strength) and drive to position and run the gate for you, but not much else. You must take charge and tell the driver what you want or he will ride over you if you get my drift! Usually a concrete finisher/installer will have several men on the job depending on the job size. To a bystander it seems as though there are too many hands, but for short periods of time they are needed. In the beginning and through the pour it is a flurry of activity (all elbows and A holes).

If you have anyone that can be there for you take advantage. We don't want to see pictures of ten piles of concrete that didn't get spread and finished.:eek:
Plan out in advance your sequence of pour and how you will get in and out of the pit and remove forms as the job progresses and on completion. Don't tape the forms of too soon, but don't leave them on too long either.

Dale if you know all this stuff it's for someone else then that doesn't. ;)

Best of luck :D, JIM

[garyde]

Hi Dale. I can't tell by the picture, but I hope the blocs were grouted in place. You should go very slow when filling those blocks to prevent a blow-out. I would say you should pour the blocks first, and pour the cement pad another day. you should also have two parrallel rebars horizontally around the top edge on the top blocks.
I can't tell as well, but a 6 inch slab is recommended for a Prevost. Jim is right, you need 3-4 people to do this pour and finish.

[dale farley]

I have 2 or 3 friends from the church scheduled to help with the pour and finish. I plan to drag it down, float it and then brush it with a shop broom. It won't be perfect, but it should work.

It is going to be tricky, because there is no ledge along the side of the existing building to use to drag down the concrete. Much of it will have to be dragged toward the middle, so we are expecting some real challenges in getting an acceptable finish. I think I have all the tools lined up, but I know there will probably be some surprises regardless. I am expecting a long hard day. Thanks for everyone's advice.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Dale, something that you could do that would make your job a little easier and without compromising the effectiveness of the project, fasten with tapcon fasteners, 2x4 treated ledger boards to the adjacent slab and leave them in place on completion. They would give a good reference to even out the slab with your drag. It could be a 1x4 or simply expansion joint material if all you wanted was a reference for the slab height!

JIM

[dale farley]

Jim, I thought about attaching 2x4s to the slab but decided to just use the existing expansion boards as a guide.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Dale, your weather looks good with rain holding off until tues. and wed.. Hope all goes well. Be sure to have Paulette take pictures to post.
JIM

[dale farley]

I'm am so glad that my pit is finally looking better. Concrete arrived before 7 a.m. this morning, and a couple of friends from our church helped me finish it. Took most of the day. A couple pictures below. The slab is 15' X 60'.

[Ray Davis]

The pit looks great Dale! Congrats.

What I can't figure out is how you successfully attached an image larger than 600 pixels? Most of us have had brower "issues" when attempting to do that!

Ray

[truk4u]

Dale,

When can I visit?:D

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

FINE JOB DALE, YOU "DONE" GOOD

[dale farley]

Ray, I just resized the pictures to 4" X 6". I didn't know it wasn't supposed to work. What I don't understand is why they show up as attachments instead of opening up when you pull up the post. When I use a "Basic" picture quality, the picture comes up automatically when the post is opened. I guess there is something in the system that prevents larger files from opening automatically. I have tried attaching pictures without resizing them, and it doesn't work unless I am using "Basic" when I make the picture. Of course, that just means there is a limitation to the overall size of the file.

Truk, Come on anytime.

Jim C., I did end up adding 2' X 4"s along the wall of the existing building to use to drag down the concrete. I just nailed them on, and it was much easier than I had anticipated. Dragging/floating the concrete was still quite a job, but I am happy with the finished results.

[rfoster]

Dale: Your pit looks great. It appears to me you are about ready to take delivery.

congrats on the hard work. :You are the 2nd guy I know with a pit for a bus.:cool:

[dale farley]

Roger, You're right, I am ready to take delivery. Just waiting on the bus and the money!

[MangoMike]

Dale,
The Mothership would look good straddling that pit.

Nice job.

Mike

[dale farley]

Mike, I agree, the Mothership would look fine sitting over that pit. I am still looking for a 97 at a 93 price. Surely, at least one of you two-bus guys has some compassion for us no-bus bumbs. I'm in Orlando and Lakeland this week, so maybe I'll run into a bargain.

[truk4u]

Dale,

Thanks for the concrete motivation, now I have a nice pad for the next POG visitor.;) 30 X 50, 21 yds with fiber...

2097

[dalej]

It looks very nice Tom. Do you have a photo of Nancy doing the final trowel? It appears to have a really smooth finish, that is going to be nice to get what our 8v will leave behind!:)

[truk4u]

Bring it on Dale, Nancy and Jan can do the 8V clean up while we toss back a cold one.:p Sticky will have to park in the stones, last time he was here, his had detroit diarrhea.:eek:

[dale farley]

Tom, You have a great looking slab, so all you need to do now is cut a hole with a chop saw and dig yourself a pit. Reverse operation!