Wheel balancers

[bluevost]

Hi all,

Anybody use wheel balancers on their rigs? Curious to know about Balance Masters, or Centramatic, or ?? Do you like them, do they work, would you recommend them, etc.

Also, how about tire pressure monitors for the toad. There are several of these on the market. What do you like and dislike??

Appreciate all replies,

Ken

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I used stick on wheel weights originally on the 87 coach. The results were that over time the tires went out of balance and had to be rebalanced. Any out of balance, especially on the tag or steers messes up the wear pattern.

When I replaced that set of tires I was talked into using Equal. It costs about $10 per tire and the tires are always in balance when Equal is in them. That set of tires went 134,000 miles and zero unusual wear on any tire. I did rotate the tires twice.

I have Equal now. I know of at least two coaches that use Centramatics or their equivalent and I think the concept is the same. The problem I have with them is that on one set they had almost cut through the tire valve stem, a condition that could be eliminated by cutting the tire stem slot larger. But I cannot get past the economics of Centramatics. At the current cost you need to change a lot of tires and add a lot of Equal to come up to what you end up paying for them.

[Ray Davis]

Is there a concern with Equal and some of these stem mounted air pressure sensor systems?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

There has been concern about Equal and all tire valve stems, but they supply valves with filters on the end to eleminate problems. I have had to replace Schrader valves over the years but I don't consider the number of valves replaced to be abnormal.

I doubt if Equal has any effect on the sensors, especially if someone has a dual valve stem set up like Joe.

[bluevost]

Jon,

Do you run any pressure monitors on the Hummer??

KZ

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Ken we run them on our bus and toad.

www.doranmfg.com

We also have those wheel balancers but I'm not sure what they are called they were on the bus when we bought it. When you first get rolling there is a very slight wobble for a short period of time till all the lead gets to where it wants to be then its pure Ecstasy.

I have used equal in the truck though and got away from it due to too frequent flats, from job sites, the rapid replacement rate of tires on it and little to no balance issues.

On the bus equal would work just as good as anything. My tire guys have devised a fine screen to sift the stuff for their customers so it can be reused too.

If I didn't have those balance rings, that IMO are simpler and more convenient and much more money too, that is what I'd be using.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ken,

No monitors on the Hummer.

[mikedee]

I wish I had the Centramatic's. I had them on my old coach and highly recommended them. When I replaced my tires the dealer was having a Grand Opening and I got the Equal for free as part of a dealer allowance the store received.

Equal works fine as a balancer but I hate the filters. My filters have leaked and I finally replaced them with heavy duty valve caps. I now must be sure the valves are sealed ever time I check air pressure as the little Equal particles hang up the valves. Centramatic's cost more but I am will to invest.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

A trick with the equal when checking pressures is, even with the valve stem filters and definitely without them, to keep the valve from seeping after you have checked them put a short quick blast of air into the tire to clear the product from the valve seat.

[dalej]

Great tip Joe!

[bluevost]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. It is much appreciated.

Ken

[Coloradobus]

Ken,

We first added a pair of Centramatics on the "H" drive axle in 2005. Then in 2006, we added them to the steer and tag. Now, when the pavement is completely smooth, like new concrete, I can not guage the coach speed by the seat of the my pants. I must look at the speedo. It's smooooooooth! We are so glad with the Balancers, and the people at Centramatic are good to work with.
We also have a pair on our 1967 Airstream Globe Trotter 20 ft. I had the opportunity to ride a short distance in the trailer while Chris drove and it was smoooooooth, as well.;):D We also will be adding them to our 2 axle 25 ft Aristream Trade Wind International before our spring rally trip to see the Cherry Blossoms in D.C., in 2008

[Loc]

Don't have Centramatics on the bus, but have them on the Jeep. They are outstanding. I never could get the 35 inch off road tires to balance. With the Centramatics it is smooth and I havent had any balance issues in 2 years.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Found this website about Centramatics and Equal, for everyone to read. Most of the replys are based on trucks, non on bus's, but good information anyway.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/archives/ubbthreads/1999GenUp/showflat.php-Cat=&Number=1921191&page=12&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1.htm


Gary S

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Here is the web site for the Equal product, and it has an informative video you can watch about the Equal Product and how it works in your tires.

http://imiproducts.com/equal/index.aspx

Gary S

[dalej]

Where is a good place to buy these Centramatics? I did a google and come up with more forums then places to buy!

I want to try a set on my F-150 truck, it shakes at 75

[Loc]

Dale,

I ordered mine directly from Centramatic and they shipped them to my house. They are located close to Ft. Worth. The website is www.centramatic.com and the phone number is 800.523.8473.

[dalej]

thanks Loc for the fast reply!

[Ray Davis]

So, looking at their website, I see a part which says it's for the steer axle. Although their website elsewhere indicates that on a duely, it would mount between the two wheels?

So, in a typical Prevost config, how many would you purchase. I assume the $189 price is just for a single balancer? So about $378 for just the steers? 3 times that for all wheels?

Ray

[dalej]

I think that was for two Ray, that is the way I read it.


I talked to Kent at http://www.mrtruck.net/centramatic.htm he said there wasn't a centramatic for my F-150. You might try him for your bus.

[bluevost]

Jim and Chris,

I like smoooooth toooooo!! These Centramatics could be in my near future.

Loc,

I have really destroyed a set of Baja Claws towing the jeep behind the bus. They are cupped so bad I don't think I can use them on a long trip anymore.

Ken

[Loc]

Ken,

It is easy to do. I went through 3 sets of Goodyear MTR's on the Jeep. After the second set, I started rotating them religiously every 5K miles. This helped, but towing is just hard on the large aggressive tread tires. I started towing my Tahoe a couple of years ago and bought a trailer for the Jeep. I think the stock tires work better on the Jeep for towing, but they are worthless when Jeeping.

Loc

[Ray Davis]

Thanks for the clarification Dale, you're right, that seems to be a price for two. Much better. Are these normally NOT put on the tag or drive axles. Is that not as critical?

ray

[dalej]

You know...I think that is a choice you have to make. If you have the cash, do all the wheels. Just not sure if you will see the ride difference putting them on the back, the steer is so important.

[Kevin Erion]

I installed Centramatics on the steer and tags, I think the best bet for the bucks.
Kevin

[rbeecher]

The FAQ on their website was a good read with a great explaination of what effects tire wear.

All very good information.

Richard
2002 Marathon XLII 45
1996 Vogue XL 40 for sale

[mikedee]

I had my Corvette tires balanced on a new Hunter Road Force balancer. The machine apply's a load to the rotating tires tread with a roller and measures the variation in force caused by the out of balance.

They add weight to offset the force and the results were amazing. The Goodyear run flats were spun balanced but I could feel a small jump at 65 Mph. After the road force balance smoooooth to +120 Mph when I got scared and lifted.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I just ordered a set (4) Centramatic Balancers for my 02 4x4 Diesel Ford Excursion. $199 +T/S.

I should be riding on air this weekend? :)

Gary S

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I think that was for two Ray, that is the way I read it.

I talked to Kent at http://www.mrtruck.net/centramatic.htm he said there wasn't a centramatic for my F-150. You might try him for your bus.

I spoke with Centramatic Dale about your F-150, and NO Balancers?

They are getting a new Spinning machine and should have Centramatics designed for your truck after the first of the year..?

Apparently they currently hit the brake rotors, the way they are designed, but are in the process of redisigning, JUST FOR YOU DALE. :D

Gary S.

[dalej]

Thanks Gary

[Ray Davis]

So, what is involved in installation of these things? Should I be looking for a local dealer who could install (on my bus), or is it a do-it-yourself thing?

Ray

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

So, what is involved in installation of these things? Should I be looking for a local dealer who could install (on my bus), or is it a do-it-yourself thing?

Ray

Ray, it's do it yourself for some and not for others.
You must remove the wheels and the ring simply goes over the studs. Then you put the wheel back on and torque the nuts. You need all those tools, and a place to do the work. Putting the rings on is not the hard part.

You could probably go to Prevost and get a three axle alignment and have them put them on for you. Where your at with your bus ( new to you) now seems like a good time for that alignment ( base line fresh start) There is all probability that with your kind of driving you would not have to do it again for a real long time. I was quoted a price in July at Jacksonville Prevo for the alignment of $600.00. Not that expensive as far as bus stuff goes.

I would also recommend that you install the rings on all axles that's 6 rings. On the drives the ring goes between the two wheels. Read the FAQ on Centramatic's site for the reasons.

[truk4u]

I was quoted a price in July at Jacksonville Prevo for the alignment of $600.00. Not that expensive as far as bus stuff goes.

OK Jim, is there something you want to share with us?;) If you where checking on balancing, what happened to the bus deal?:rolleyes:

[Ray Davis]

Thanks for the info Jim. Darn, previous owner had a complete alignment in January of this year. But, I'll certainly consider this.

The Centramatic website when you select the #700 unit which indicates it's for Prevost etc, it just indicates "steer" axles. Is there another unit for the drives and/or tags, or do you use the same one?

[Alek&Lucia]

Hi Jim,

Are the congratulations are in order ?

[dalej]

Jim, are you a bus owner?

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jim, are you a bus owner?

No Dale and Tom, there were a couple that I was considering so I was checking around on PDI and various service pricing. One got sold before I could see it and the other I passed on .

[Jon Wehrenberg]

You are going to need a foot alignment Jim.

Because of all the tires you are kicking.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jon, you got a chuckle out of that comment.:D:D


Ray, I didn't know you had an alignment, never mind then on that.

Look again at the Centramatic site FACs read them all.
Notice that they tell how the ones for duals are installed.
Notice that they speak of the amount of imbalance that various can correct.
Notice that the ones for duals contain more media for correcting a larger imbalance (two wheel assemblies).
Notice that in the various other sizes than 700 there is no mention of rear(dual) balancers either, but they surely must have them or they wouldn't be giving their specifications in the FACs.
I think the drives being heavier will cost more. It would be good to call their 800 no. to get it from the horses mouth! I think they want you to call for each application.

Sorry for all the notices. I couldn't think of another way to make you notice:eek::D

http://www.nwtruckworks.com/search_results.php?part_nums=800-810;900-910;700-710;600-630;600-640

Ray I noticed upon looking at a reseller's site (above) that they price out the duals and their pricing overall seems cheaper than the Mfgr.

[Ray Davis]

Thanks for ALL the info Jim.

And by the way, you probably should get that foot looked at!!! :eek:

[rfoster]

Ray: I have the centramatics on the drive axle only. I inherited them from the previous owner. I have equal in steer and tag axles. So far so good with one exception and I have made mention of it in a previous post. The centramatic is positioned between the rear duals and thur centrifigual force the inner tire stem was almost cut in half by the balancer. Be sure the hole in the balancer is elongated enough to clear the tire stem or the stem is enclosed in rubber firmly. Mine have the rubber boot around the stem but it fits loosely. I carry spare tire stem extensions now. Hope this helps.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I want to add to Roger's suggestion about Centramatics. The tire valve stems may appear to not contact the centramatics when being inspected because the coach is stationary. Centrifugal force has a huge impact on the valve stems, especially if they have extensions. On my coach, because I was lazy and did not remove or inspect the extensions I was not aware that the extensions were actually wearing a hole in themselves on the opening in the wheel. I do not have centramatics and my stems which normally were centered in the hole in the wheel flexed while I was driving until they came in contact with the outside of the opening in the wheel. I posted the pictures a while back.

The same thing happens if you have Centramatics if the clearance hole is too small. My recommendation is to avoid using any extensions to the valve stems and instread use the straight foot tire fill valves. If you wear a hole through a valve stem or extension the air loss will occur rapidly, and if you are not aware of the loss of air, especially on the inside drive axle tire, it could start to come apart and tear things up (that's the good news), or worse it could heat up and start a fire.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I know several of the guys use the Equal product to balance their tires, and like I usually do, I wanted to check on other products that might be in the market now to do the same thing.

I found a product called Dyna Beads, which is mfged by Innovative Balancing. http://www.innovativebalancing.com/

This product looks to be exceptional in what it does, but AGAIN I HAVE NO personal experience with it. Has anyone used this product?

I sent an email request to the mfg. of Innovative Balancing and asked if his product was better than Equal and if so, why?

This was his response to me:

Hi Gary,
Have you seen our Fleet page?
Equal is very abrasive to your inner liner, and if there's any moisture on the inside, Equal will clump up and stop working. Equal is an old product, actually nothing more than a bunch of ground up plastic than has the consistency of sand, but the abrasiveness of emery. It was used for balancing, but is nowhere near the type of material that a good balancing material requires.
Our product is designed for balancing Fleet tires and other types of tires, but that's it's only purpose.
It is totally non-abrasive, moisture has absolutely no effect on it's balancing properties, it will not grind down inside your tires, and will not create rubber dust. We have had our product re-used from one set of steers to another, with over 400,000 miles so far, but we don't know how far it will go.
In the shop, you won't find out product dusty and messy to work with, nor hazardous to your employees. Our beads our 2mm in dia, come in a bag, and you can either pour them in, or put the whole bag in, but the entire operation is clean and neat. We don't require any special dry-air handling like Equal does, as moisture doesn't affect our product.
From a money standpoint, we don't require large purchases. We have customers with 2 trucks, we have customers with 100, and our product comes 12 to a case. If you need 1 case, you buy one case, if you need more, buy what your budget allows, we don't dictate minimums.

One other small thing, our product does not require special filtered valve cores.

We have a lot of very happy Fleet customers, if you need a reference, give Carol a call at the toll free number below.

Robert
Technical Support

Ceramic Tire Balancing
Tel-USA: 866-352-7251
Tel-Outside USA: 585-467-6028
www.dynabeads.com

I put this out there just FYI. No sales commissions or referrals, I hope just good information for our group??? :)


Gary S.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

What does Equal say?:D

Just kidding Gary. I have used Equal for about 15 years. I have never seen it clumped or had any issues with abrasion on the inner tire lining. Personally, if it wasn't for the expense I would like Centrimatic type balancing, but for now I will continue with Equal or its equivalent. This looks like a good alternative.

[mikedee]

The Equal product works well for balance and is cheap. I have it in my tires and will never use it again. I hate the valve stems getting stuck open when I check tire pressure. Sometimes I can reset the valve stem with a small screw driver, sometimes I must drag out the air doubler and blow the valve clean. What a hassle.

I put Centramatic's on my old American Tradition and loved them. I am getting new tires in about a year and I plan on the Centramatic's on all axles.

Good post on the valve stem interference issue. I think problems with tires are caused by faulty valve stems or leaking gaskets at the valve stem to wheel connection causing flats.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

So Mike C. did you look at the Dynabead products? If not, before you spend the money for Centramatic wheel balancers, you should weigh all options, including the Dynabead tire balance options? Just my opinion.

They apparently balance the tires without the need or hassle of plugging the valve stems.

Gary S.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

To repeat what has already been posted before Equal or its equivalents need the valve stem cores that have the ceramic or mesh filters. That prevents debris from getting under the seat and causing a leak. But I have gone one further and it helps immensely, to the point that I haven't had any issues since using them. That is the installation of these:

http://www.tiresupplyguide.com/alligator/alligator.html

I do not use extensions, but a straight foot tire chuck with an integral pressure gauge. I got that at Wal-Mart for about $14, but the current ones only go to 100 PSI so an alternative such as this needs to be used:

http://www2.northerntool.com/product/12406.htm

That will have to be modified by adding a straight foot chuck.

I will never add wheel weights, not only because Jim Keller posted how the tire rotates on the rim, but because as the tire ages and wears it goes out of balance.

[Denny]

Keep It Simple ?????. Why do we keep complicating a very simple matter? Do we use Equal or its equivalent? Do we use ring balancers, Centramatics or another brand? Do we get out each time with our trusty infra red thermometer and check the heat of the wheels and tires with the many variables involved? Do we check the pressure with the hand air gauge and find we need two pounds of air and have to drag out the air hose or the air pressure multiplier and hook it up? I think you get the point.

The simple solution is the SmarTire system. I drive all day and pull into my stopping place and I check the pressure from the comfort of my driver's seat. I touch another button and I check the temps of each tire, from the comfort of my driver's seat. I do not need all of the above tools to do a very simple task - check air pressure and temperature. If a problem develops while driving an alarm sounds and the monitor lights red telling me there is a problem. I shut down for the night and before I leave in the am, a drive around the parking lot gives me readings on my cooled down tires. Everything is fine and I hit the road.

I run Equal in all of my tires, along with the safety caps Jon talked about, and have never had a problem. If I need to adjust pressure due to temp changes I use the combination air gauge and chuck and inflate/deflate the tires. I give a quick blast of air and it clears any particulate out of the valve core.

We have read about many tire failures and over heating on this POG site in recent months. Lloyd has recently posted on his blog about pulling into a campground and finding a flat tire. I believe this has happened twice. I just read on this site today about a blown tire and the wife going through the windshield. Many of this incidents could have been avoided by having the proper measures in place to constantly monitor the life line system of our vehicles - the tires and brakes. We can get along very well without every other system on the bus - ac, heat, bathroom, furnishing, etc. but the two things we cannot drive without are the tires and brakes.

Virtually every other system can malfunction and we can get to a service place for repairs but without brakes and tires we cannot operate. And if failure occurs while driving we better pray that we get landed safely. Yet this is an area we often neglect or step over dollars to get to pennies.

We have all kinds of gauges, dials, idiot lights and monitor systems telling about the engine, transmission, electrical and yes even the holding tanks but we go down the highway without anything reporting on the tires.

I have used the SmarTire system and Equal for over nine years and am 100% satisfied with it. I drive down the road knowing that the most important parts on my bus are constantly be checked. Can I experience a problem? Yes. but the odds of a catastrophic failure happening are greatly reduced.

So let's forget about all this other crap and keep it simple.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Denny is right. Period. If you opt to not have the pressure sensors take the time to check the tires.

He did leave out one thing that will put you on a flat bed trailer and that is a failed air bag. If I were to suggest the second most important thing after tires it would be the air bags. Even a failed brake chamber can be dealt with by plugging or capping the air hose or caging the brake (if it is an emergency brake diaphragm), but if an air bag lets go, you cannot drive with the bus sitting on the ground.

[jello_jeep]

Just for information, I was speaking with the guy from the tire shop, and asked if he installed the centramatics, he said no, he de-installs them! He said he had a stack of them laying there.

He claims they don't have enough counter weight to actually do anything effective to the steer axel tires, and have not been PROVEN to help at all, other than in the company's own sales stuff.

He further claims that the best thing is to get a good balance off the bat, and another at the expected mid-life of the tire.

Once again, tires are not my field of genius at all, just passing along another opinion from someone in the biz.

I was all set up to get some, as the concept looked good to me, but I will take his advice for the time being anyway! I guess if you really want some, you might get some for a 12 pack down there ? :)


Steve B, I will be calling you.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Until I started using Equal I had the tires balanced using weights. They were spin balanced off the coach so if there was an imbalance in the brake drum that was not addressed.

The tires were out of balance almost immediately and rebalancing was also temporary. If I were to say it lasted 10,000 miles I would be lying. The net result was wear on the tires that was so uneven you could feel it. The tires also cupped on the edges despite constant monitoring of tire pressures.

I have never experienced uneven tire wear since using Equal. I have never felt the coach shake because of an imbalance like I did when using weights.

Others may have different experience, but Equal (or its equivalent) works for me, and I am guessing the Centrimatics also work well. I would rather talk to a bus fleet operator about what he recommends than the "guy from the tire shop".

[jello_jeep]

125152113126

[dalej]

I'm going to put a bag of this product in each of the steers. I'll report after getting home from SD.

http://www.counteractbalancing.com/