Level-Low

[dalej]

Are there any people that have a level-low on the dash that you have to push/pull to adjust the air to the bags for leveling? This is what I have and it's going to be changed out shortly. If I'm the only one, I won't document every detail.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

We do and I know there are others.

[Orren Zook]

Are there any people that have a level-low on the dash that you have to push/pull to adjust the air to the bags for leveling? This is what I have and it's going to be changed out shortly. If I'm the only one, I won't document every detail.

What do you mean by changed out? Are you replacing the valves? or going to some other system? The BW valves used in early level low can be rebuilt with two o-rings and some silicon grease for a total cost of thirty cents (plus your time for labor - I think that is $100 per hour at current rates).

[dalej]

I'm changing out the push/pulls, relocating the controls, re-running the air lines to the steer bay. I want to be able to control the leveling from the drivers seat like the newer coaches do.

[bill&jody]

dale - whats these push/pull thing look like? i have a 3-position rocker switch and a 4-way rotary switch that switches between normal road use and right, left, front. there is also a 3-position switch for manual, automatic and "normal". that sits over the entrance door.

curious about the push/pull switches tho....


wmm

[dalej]

These are push/pull air valves located on dash of my bus that allows the raising and lowerng of the bus.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Dale,

Depending on how your valves are set up the Prevost supplied solenoid valves supply or exhaust air to-from the pneumatic operators on the Norgren valves. That is located in our steer compartments and I am assuming your valves for leveling are operated by hand rather than electrically via a single switch or multiple spwitches.

You are adding another layer of complexity to what sounds like a good system. What are you attempting to accomplish that you cannot do now?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Jon we have exactly what Dale has I think and the ONLY thing norgren on our bus is the ride height valves.

We have NONE of that stuff in the steering bay that you describe, thank goodness.

Orren how about you?

If Dale wants to move some stuff leave him alone;)

Bill I will post some pics. later on.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The ride height valves are likely Haldex. Norgren spool valves are not set up to react to chages in ride height.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Correct again and that would make ZERO norgren components on ours!

Bill here is what our leveling system looks like and it is located on the dash right at the door.

1796

[dalej]

Ours is set up the way Joe has in his photo. My problem has always been when I want the bus up above ride height, I have to stand there and push these valves to raise the bus high enough to get my stands under the frame and when I want to take the bus off the stands I have to stand there and push the buttons down untl the bus is all the way up. Just want to add three DC over air valves to handle this.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I was going to suggest that instead of wasting your time holding valves that you should have Jan do it, but then I realized that poor gal is already over worked.

It looks like a solenoid valve mainfold and some rocker switches is in your future.

[dalej]

Jon, remember in Kerrville I was asking if you heard of the Parker kneeling valve, I'm looking into using
that. I am corresponding with them now.

[Ray Davis]

Question in a similar vein. My CC had an automatic leveling system (not sure of manufacture), which had a 3 way single switch. the three positions were essentially normal (for driving), level (for at campsite), and dump, which would dump all the air very quickly.

In the Marathon I seem to only have the bus leveling system as provided from Prevost. For leveling it's actually not too bad, as if the site is fairly level, I can dial it in fairly quickly using the knobs.

But, should I want to dump all the air, and just lit it sit down, there's no easy way to do this? I am assuming I need to one by one lower the front, the left and right, etc. I want to dump it once in awhile, just to exercise the valves in the leveling system, make sure the bus is lower, and raising regularly.

Ray

[dalej]

Ray, if that is indeed how you lower you bus down, just remember to lower the rear first, lowering the front first will put a stress on your frame when you exhaust either the left or right rear.

[Ray Davis]

Ray, if that is indeed how you lower you bus down, just remember to lower the rear first, lowering the front first will put a stress on your frame when you exhaust either the left or right rear.


Oh, thanks for the info. I would have most likely lowered the front first!

[rbeecher]

Oh, thanks for the info. I would have most likely lowered the front first!

Ray and Dale,

Our 2002 Marathon XLII has a knob that has settings for left, front, and right (no rear position is marked). Just ahead of that knob is a rocker switch with an arrow indicating to push down on one side of the switch to lower and the other side of the switch to raise. My question with this set up is what the procedure is to lower or raise the rear itself before going to the front.

Dale, what is the thinking that there can be damage if the front is lowered first? If it makes any difference, I have a 6,000lb trailer attached most of the time.

What am I missing?

Thanks,

Richard

[dalej]

Bus’s are like a tripod when there is air in the bags. If you are going to let the air out of all the bags start
at the back and do the front last so the front can pivot, then let the front down. The reverse is true when
adding air back into the bags, do the front first so it can pivot when adding air to the back.

When you turn on the key switch, air is introduced to all the bags so the one with the least resistance
goes up first, usually the back always goes up first.

I raise my bus up a lot since I put it on stands when not on the road.

[truk4u]

Prevost level low instructions are as Dale said, do the rear left and/or right and the front last.

[rbeecher]

Dale and Tom,

Thanks for the clarification, I learned something new on this site, again. I need to go back to reading manuals which seem to be the only books I read since becoming a bus owner.

Richard

[phorner]

Richard,

I guess you have your bus back to enjoy by now??

You need to get some pictures posted of that beauty....

[rbeecher]

Paul,

Geeez, yeah, you are right about that, there is no excuse now. That is the thing about this group, you can run and you can try to hide ...

Went up Friday and stayed at the campground Friday night. Barbara didn't want to drive back the same day so we had Mexican again, thought of you and Janice.

I'm going to take better pictures now that I have some time with the bus. Maybe the "light" will come on and I'll figure out how to post them.

Mango wrote awhile back and offered to help me out for a small price. Well, he didn't actually say there was a price, but I'm sure I'll find out at the next rally.

Are all your neighbors behaving?

Richard
2002 Marathon XLII 45
1996 Vogue xl 40 for sale

[MangoMike]

Richard,

Offer is still open. No MONETARY fee required.

mm

[rbeecher]

Mango,

Ok, but if I take you up on the offer you can't tell anyone you posted them for me because I couldn't figure it out.

Richard

[lewpopp]

Richard...what was the smart comment about Horner's neighbors behaving. Was he talking about me again. Just remember, Paul doesn't know sh-t about anything, but he has a license that says he does.

I told you I would get you if you talked about your neighbors.

Lew

[merle&louise]

Do any of the converters use the HWH computerized leveling system. I have it on my coach, and it is simple to operate.

Pressing the AIR button twice levels the coach automatically in the parked position. To dump all air while driving (under 18 mph) press AIR once and then press the down arrow button. To raise the coach while driving press the AIR button once and then press the up arrow button.

I have had this HWH computerized leveling system on all 3 coaches; it works very well. It is made up of two manifolds with 6 solenoid leveling valves; one in the front and one in the rear of the coach. I don't know the brand name of solenoid leveling valves but they work like a dream.

I recall seeing a photo of the HWH Computerized Leveling system on a Prevost, but I can't remember which converter used it.

[truk4u]

Tuga,

My CC has it and you can still use the Prevost level low as well.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think some use it to supplement the basic Prevost system. Bill Jensen mentioned at Branson that Marathon uses it to provide the automatic feature. The HWH does not add any valves according to Bill, but does automatically do the electrical switching that would normally be done manually.

[merle&louise]

I am a little confused; what function does the Level Low provide?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Level low as near as I can figure is the name Prevost gives the system that allows the driver to individually raise or lower each corner of the bus to level it or to get a little clearance when crossing a humped railroad crossing, or to keep from dragging the tail when exiting down a steep driveway.

Its a fancy name for the system that lets you, the driver, have some control over how high or low you want your individual air bags to be. Do not interpret this as meaning you can drive down the highway and adjust things. You actually can but it is intended to be solely for when you are stopped or nearly stopped and a big red light shines on the dash when you are in the Level Low mode.

[dalej]

Prevost added the name Level Low to motor homes since they needed to add addional valves so the owner can level at a campsite. My level low is strictly manual but most have 24v/air valves to level their bus's.

Then you add HWH or what ever to auto level using these same 24v/air valves.

[Ray Davis]

My 93 CC had the HWH system as well. It was pretty darn nice. Especially, when you wanted to lower it. Push switch to "dump", and the whole coach settled down in a few seconds.

Only draw back, Kathy accidently hit that switch while we were driving down the interstate one day. Imagine me yelling and try to tell her what she did, so that she could get the switch back in the drive position before we bottomed out!

Ray

[rbeecher]

Richard...what was the smart comment about Horner's neighbors behaving. Was he talking about me again. Just remember, Paul doesn't know sh-t about anything, but he has a license that says he does.

I told you I would get you if you talked about your neighbors.

Lew

Lew,

Sorry, I thought you were probably taking a nap when I sent that message and that you would never see it. Actually I just wanted to see if you are paying attention.

As for Horner, well, he never says anything about anyone, kinda boring if you ask me. He does know alot though.:D

[rbeecher]

Richard,

Offer is still open. No MONETARY fee required.

mm

MM,

It must have been late last night when I read your offer for help, didn't catch the MONETARY part in caps. Maybe you'll forget to charge me by the next rally but that is a chance I'm not sure I should take. You wouldn't really charge ANYTHING to help out a fellow Marathon owner, would you?:rolleyes:

Thanks anyway for the offer, but I think I'll ask Horner, I hear he knows alot and offers the 15% discount to MARATHON owners. :D

Richard

[phorner]

Man, you gotta be REAL desperate to ask me!!! Not that I won't try to help in any way I can, but a guy's gotta know his limitations.....

And mine come up real soon.....

Was Lew complainin' about me bragging that I get to be his neighbor ????

[bill&jody]

so whats this HWH system cost, anybody know?

dale- we could build you an automatic leveler with a small embedded controller card, a couple switches and a few relays. are you the only one who would use such a thing, that is, anybody else who does not have auto levelling and would like to add it?

dale, you willing to beta such an effort?

wmm

[dalej]

I talked to HWH yesterday for about 30 minutes. Didn't get the response that I had hoped for. They are interested is working for the masses in RV's, that is sell large numbers.

I was hoping to purchace a box full of parts and start to set mine up with automatic leveling.

As of today, I going to order some 24 volt solenoid valves, get a bunch of fittings and some switches and put it back together.

Bill, If at some rally you can talk me into trying automatic leveling, I will listen, but a word about me....I like manual things, I can fix them myself. :)

[garyde]

Hi Dale. Have you talked to Prevost? They might have something .

[Orren Zook]

Orren how about you?

I'm using the same valves, just installed a little differently

[bill&jody]

joe-
would you be interested in an automatic leveler if we start this project?
wmm

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I don't know. Haven't really ever considered it with all the other projects still undone.

The way things have been this year and looking forward it's hard to say when the next time we will hook up will be.

Would it be able to be activated by clapping my hands:D or voice command:rolleyes:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I don't have a dog in this fight because my bus does have automatic leveling, but if you aspire to install it be mindful of the fact that there are times when it isn't as precise as you may wish it to be. Also, there are times when its logic doesn't work for us.

If it insists on leaving the front end high, even though I know the rear can drop down more (thus lowering the front) I still end up manually leveling the coach because we don't want to have to use a step ladder to get to that first step.

I probably use the manual leveling as much if not more than the automatic, although the automatic does impress the troops if you have an audience, and you can get out of your seat, and outside the coach while the leveling system is still doing its up and down thing.

[dalej]

Jon, when I was talking to HWH, I ask him how their system would handle a case where you want to
dump all the air our of the system, like I do when I park in a Rv park but the front needs to come up a
little. He said your would have to dump the air and hit the auto button, then it should add air to the front,
did you notice the should? Then I ask would it ever start adding air when it goes through its every 30
minute cycle. He said yes. So I ask, is it possible that after it cycles to find level a few times or though
out a few days, would the bus slowly be raised back to road height, but still level, he said it's possible. I
said then should I just manualy level to keep the bus as low as possible, he said thats possible.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Good point and excellent information Dale.

When I turn off my key the valves "lock" the air in the air bags. On the previous coach the automatic function would work with the key off.

What he isn't telling you is that if his is a key off control system you will work your compressor to death. A windy day, people moving inside the coach, or just a slight leak in the leveling system will make the system activate and either dump or add air. We quit leaving the automatic feature "on" because on a windy night you could hear valves dumping and filling air when the coach rocked, and then you hear the compressor kick on, and on that coach the pressure required to raise the front was greater than the compressor shut off point, so the poor system would never quit laboring.

If the HWH cannot be turned off after leveling I see it as a disadvantage.

[phorner]

"When I turn off my key the valves "lock" the air in the air bags. On the previous coach the automatic function would work with the key off."

Man, I gotta work on the "lock" part, 'cause mine sure doesn't....

Then again, that will have to wait until I can actually start the coach, once my battery challenges are completed...

[tdelorme]

Our Country Coach Intrigue has HWH fully automatic leveling. I usually level by dumping all air and then hit the level pad. When the coach is level, I then hit the off pad. It never moves after that. If it did settle, I would hit the level pad (twice) and let it re-level. If the compressor started cycling too often, I would try and find/fix the leak. I like the HWH, but the Foretravels we had a few years back had a manual system that also worked great. Lack auto level will not be a deal killer when we find our bus.

[bill&jody]

one of the benefits of rolling your own controller is that it can do whatever you want it to do, given that it can sense its environment. dale's comment about "can it eventually end up at road ht" is interesting in that the controller (either the ones that came in the busses or one we'd invent) have no idea where in the travel the bus as a whole (or the ends) are apart from how many times its added air. the whole thing, as it exists, runs open loop.

damping out transients like wind and people walking around is pretty easy to program around. having two or three heavy-weights park their butts on the same sofa for a while could still confuse it, tho. without some kind of feedback, its kinda difficult (read, impossible) to tell where the bus is relative to the ground. a truly closed loop system would need to be able to sense lift. wonder how we could do that.....................

dale's answer from hwh is very, er, unsatisfying. basically, the current state of the art auto leveling only works if there are NO leaks and the ambient temp stays pretty much the same.

like jon, i too use mine to get level and close to the ground, then turn it off. sad how these things never seem to quite perform as advertised/expected.

wmm

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Hey Bill, maybe there is a way to get feed back from a cheap laser measuring tool, something like builders find at home depot or lowes?
If you could, then put one on each corner of the bus pointed at the ground, or something like that:eek:

[truk4u]

Dale,

I experimented with the HWH after talking to you and when I raise a side using the HWH, it does put air in the front bag, bringing up the entire side.

As a side note, I was a little low on the right side the other day, so I hit the auto level and instead of adding air to bring the side up, it just dumped air on the other side to make it level.

Go figure...