Catastrophic Engine Failure

[VegasDogMan]

My neighbor bought a 2007 Country Coach Lexa last year and had numerous problems with it and got quite frustrated so he decided to dump it and buy a Prevost.

He negotiated a trade with Marathon this summer where he got a chunk of cash plus a 1998 Marathon 45' Prevost.

He was driving down the road last week about 8 miles from home when his Detroilt Diesel 60 series engine blew up! Yes, it just exploded with parts flying all over and oil slick on the road. His wife was following in their car and spun out on the oil slick when the engine blew.

Upon examination of engine they found the block was "sliced in half" due to bolt falling out of Wrist Pin on one of the pistons and connecting rod went through the block at several locations.

This was a low mileage engine and had no problems or warnings up to the time it blew.

Needless to say he's quite upset and has decided to give up motorhoming. Two lemons in one year! Ugh!. I guess he told Marathon to take the coach back and give him a full refund... don't know any more info.

[Ray Davis]

Wow! Hopefully Detroit Diesel will make good on the engine? Although if he's getting out, it probably won't matter.

Sorry to hear about that.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

There was a vintage of Series 60 engines that had problems with the pistons separating at the wrist pin. From my understanding defective pistons from a supplier were the problem and at the time this was occurring Detroit would rebuild or replace the engine.

The problem as described to me would show up in the early life of the engine. If the engine survived past 250,000 miles it was unlikely it had defective pistons.

I don't know from the description if that engine failure was the result of a defective piston, but it is worth trying to find out. The owner should go direct to Prevost to try to enlist their support in determining if that was the cause and if it was to influence Detroit to stand behind the repairs.

[VegasDogMan]

Jon:

I'll pass your comments on to Bill.

Thanks.

[jack14r]

I thought Marathon had a 6 month warranty on any used coach they sold.

[VegasDogMan]

That's what I understand also.

Coach is currently at Detroit Diesel service facility awaiting decision as to who's going to pay for repairs. $25K +

My neighbor is so frustrated he's asked Marathon to take bus back and give him a refund.

[wrongagain]

Marathon does a 6 month warranty.
After I took delivery of the coach there was a lot of stuff I found I didnt like, and since I am a billion miles away from marathon they agreed to let me get stuff done locally.
I know they stand behind it, as I am currently having a bunch of work done on mine at a local prevost authorized shop and marathon has paid for it all so far.
so far they have paid to have my,...
4 chassis batteries
pinion seal
pull air bleeds on all tanks
both rear wheel seals
both tag brake lines
all 8 air bags
front leveling valve
a dozen light bulbs
fan hub and bearing
fan belts
air slide belt adjuster
Granted this is hardly the cost of an engine, but they could have told me to get bent, bring it here to marathon or pay for it yourself.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lee,

Your friend may miss having the pleasure of owning a great coach once he puts this behind him. Sometimes stuff happens.

This is not the case of Marathon dumping a bad coach on him, but of a catastrophic and unanticipated engine failure through no fault of him, Marathon or anybody else. In fact, the good news is he bought a coach with some miles on the engine, and when the dust settles he is going to end up with a new engine and likely little or no out of pocket expense.

I would say he made a good deal although it doesn't seem like it now.

[truk4u]

Ed,

What Marathon store did you buy from? So much for the PDI provided as part of the sale...:eek:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tom,

In defense of Marathon and whoever pulled the codes on the engine prior to the sale this is something that likely was an internal physical failure of something and it would not have given any warning. Remember the fellow that posted about the engine gear box that burst apart in the area around the water pump and took the whole engine with it at less than 30,000 miles?

When the piston failures were occurring the DD dealer showed me several engine blocks being returned to DD. The damage was extensive and is not something that would have occurred with any warning. In those instances the top half of the piston separated from the skirt right at the wrist pin. Either half of the piston could cock sideways in the cylinder, and the connecting rod soon separated from the two halves and literally smashed a hole through the engine block, the oil pan, and anything else it got punched into before the engine quit.

[truk4u]

Jon Boy,

I wasn't referring to the blown engine, I was making a point about Ed buying from Marathon and then having to have all the things corrected that he listed. That was a long list of items, many of which should have been taken care of during the alleged PDI they provide.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I understand. You are correct. That is an impressive list and most of it is so obvious it make one wonder why it was not corrected prior to delivery.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

It sounds like the quality control attitude in Detroit. Let the buyer perform the task. If he finds it and complains then we will fix it.:eek:

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Ignorance is bliss.

I think just the fact that they are willing to do all those things, free of charge regardless when, on a 17 yr old vehicle speaks volumes.

[wrongagain]

and let's not forget
air dryer, and back up alarm.
the story was the house side of marathon did it, not the service side, and hence my situation, the house guys build stuff they dont know service.
that was marathon hq in oregon.
they have been more than accommodating, but still.
now the front loses air overnight like it never did before new air bags so back to the shop on tuesday to resolve that.

[Des Beavers]

Is there a set of serial numbers for the early Series 60's that may have the faulty wrist pins and pistons, that a purchaser can look out for and try to avoid?

[BoaterAl]

Sorry to hear of the engine failure on his Marathon. Having been around automotive and trucks most of my life one can make a strong case that there is no crystal ball as to when something mechanical will decide for what ever reason.... fail. How could you prevent a bolt or nut inside a engine from breaking loose.

I'm with Tom on...how come... the buyer takes delivery then goes back to Marathon with a laundry list of fix me now ?

I had the pleasure of the purchase with the Marathon sales team and can honestly say it was the best purchase experience I've had. The customer was the most important part of the purchase in making us happy that everything was taken care of prior leaving Marathon.

Having never owned a Prevost before my purchase with Marathon had exceeded expectations before leaving the factory.

[travelite]

Hi Jennifer,

I think the problem appeared in the mid 1990's. You may wish to pose the question to the folks over on dieselEngineTrader.com. There's some long time Detroit Diesel mechanics over there who really know their stuff and the history of the Series 60. Good luck!

http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/diesel_talk/categories.cfm?catid=9

[Jon Wehrenberg]

David is corect with respect to the vintage. The problem was related to all Detroit Engines in the mid nineties which was around the time Prevost was beginning to install the Series 60 in their coaches.

The good news is that if an engine of that vintage reached about 250,000 miles the chances are very high it will not have a problem.

I'm driving one from around that time and in about 10,000 miles I can breathe a sigh of relief.

[Des Beavers]

Thanks David and Jon both for your replies.
We are also looking at an 1995 (titled) Royale, (with an early series 60) with 140 k miles, but the thought of having this type of failure occur has me concerned. Should it?

Best of luck Jon and happy traveling your next 10k!

[Coloradobus]

Jennifer,

Another thing to look for on the engine is where it was made. We had a 1999 Country Coach Shell called a 2001 with 2 slides by HWH and when you opened the rear engine compartment doors, right on the block we had in raised letters, "Made In Mexico.
Turned out this group of motors were built with solid pushrods, resulting in lack of lubrication. So, at 20,000 miles, we were in for a "top-end Kit with new pistions, pushrods etc on DD's nickel.

Hey with a name such as "Des Beavers" there are 2 Prevost Beavers' out there for sale, and maybe a rd.
That would be Bus 6 on Philcoopers site, 1990, its in Texas
Bus 33 which is 1992 shell so it has the 500 hp 8V like ours, but it titled a 1993 in Pennsykvania
Bus 28 may still be up for grabs as well, with 62,000 miles on it, lives in Albuquerque.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jenn,

look at it this way.......the chances are remote. It wasn't as though every DD was blowing up so already the odds are in your favor. The one you are looking at has some experience behind it so I would say that improves the chances the engine is perfectly fine (assuming the codes are checked by DD). Is there a risk? Yes. Is it a meaningful risk? Probably not. Can you predict it? No.

When this type of catastrophic failure occurs the problem is internal and mechanical and there does not appear to have been any way to predict which engine had the problem or when it was going to happen. The worst thing that can happen is you end up with a bus with a new engine you paid for out of your own pocket. The best (which is most likely) is you own a coach that will prove trouble free and reliable with 140K miles of its life used up.

[truk4u]

Hey Al,

My post was from 2007, gee, time fly's...

[phorner]

Hey Al,

My post was from 2007, gee, time fly's...

Sure does! That was many, many miles ago.....

[BoaterAl]

I never looked at the date.....

doofus in Missouri

[AmeriStar]

Was the actual cause of the engine exploding ever proven? There was another story about a series 60 blowing apart in the same fashon. Cause was a diesel/gasoline mix. The person this happened to tried to blame the convience store he purchased the fuel from, but the video tape from the pump area proved the bus driver had used the gasoline side of the pump.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

A friend had a new Vantare and he had a catastrophic engine failure, as did our fellow pogger Jeff Bayley. There was a run of Series 60 engines that had pistons fail. Apparently the pistons separated at the wrist pin leaving the connecting rod, the piston skirt and the piston crown loose and free to create havoc inside the block. I saw one such engine at my local DD dealer and the rod had punched a hole in the side of the block.

Detroit had apparently switched vendors on pistons and that was where the problem was isolated. At the time DD stood behind all repairs. I doubt if a low mile 10 or 15 year old coach would get a free engine now, but I also doubt if any coaches in that category will experience that problem because it appeared to show up at an early age. I was told by my friend that when it happened it was sudden, without warning, and kind of noisy.

[Mark3101]

We saw the same thing in Cat C-12 engines. Pin separation due to crack in skirt area. Big bang and blown block. Cat was not nearly as good as DD at warranty / policy adjustments for this problem. They would cover some and deny more. If you had a high horsepower engine, it was likely to fail early in life. Ours were lower HP models and failed much later, but it was the same issue. We were less than impressed with the response.