Tire Replacement

[garyde]

I am in the process of shopping for tires for the back tag and rear duals. I have recieved quotes of approx. $765.00 each for Michelins and about half that for Firestones. Of Coarse , there are several Japanese tires and other American tires I can get quotes on as well.
Putting aside the Chinese tire discussion, what other than Michelins do other POG members use and why. Is Firestone a reliable tire? Are there others to consider.
Since mileage is not as much a factor as age, do some tire companies hold up as well as Michelin.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary,

I think we are all interested in the response to your questions.

All I can say right now is the Chinese tires still hold air and they are still riding as good as the Michelins based on the unscientific sense I get in my rear end (mine, not the bus's).

But one or two buses worth of experience is severely lacking in depth of information. The real question should be directed at the charter bus companies in your area, especially the larger ones. They can accumulate data very fast and their concerns while based on tread wear unlike ours based on age will mirror ours with respect to on-road failures, smoothness of ride, ability to stay in balance, etc.

The biggest bus companies around here are school bus operators and that is not a parallel to our concerns.

Feel like doing some research in your quest for tires and writing an article?

[bluevost]

GaryD,

When I purchased my Eagle bus, it had 3 different kinds of tires in 6 different stages of wear. The first thing I did was to buy 8 new Goodyears, I think G357, in 24 1/2". I had them on the bus for over 4 years, Alaska and back, Texas and back, Colorado and back a few times, Branson and back, etc. No complaints at all. Mike "Buster" Simmons had Goodyears on his bus. I am due for new tires this spring, and I am going to give Goodyear a serious look.

Ken

[MangoMike]

Gary,

The New H3 had Toyo's all around. So far am very pleased and had a recent price quote of $500 per tire plus mounting.

Mike

[win42]

Gary: I put Sumitomo tires on my Royale. They were a step up in ride mainly because they replaced tires that were beyond their time. I will look to Goodyear first the next time around, only because they are an American company. I do not think we are buying more with the Michelin name. We only get 60 months use from them. We may find a way to lease them like the major companies do. We keep them for the first two years and let them have them and wear them out. If this arrangement could be structured to save us money in the long run, why not. I'll check with my cousin that drives for Walmart and see how they handle theirs. I guess our weird sizes will blow a hole in this theory.(no pun intended)

[Petervs]

Hi Gary,

Well, we all get to the tire problem eventually.

First off, we do not all use the same size tires, so it would be helpful to state what size we are talking about when we post about tires.

My coach has 315-80R22.5 Michelins now, and I was recently quoted $740 each installed. This is an uncommon size, no place stocks them, and they cost a lot more than the more common 12 R22.5 I got about 3 quotes and they were all very close. I was only asking about Michelins at the time.

Further research led me to a price of $325 delivered to me but unmounted for Chinese rubber tires in the same size. I would have to pay about $70 each for mounting, balancing, and disposal at some local shop. That makes it 55% of Michelin all done with no shop to complain to if there was a problem. I decided I would rather keep the Michelins on there for 10 years than drive around on Chinese for 5 years each; at essentially the same net cost.

Then I started searching the net and found there are quite a few exporters who will gladly sell you a container load of tires at lower prices. Turns out 240 tires of my size fills a container . The price each would drop to about $250 plus the mount and balance. But I would have 232 tires left over, perhaps some of my POG buddies would like them? 30 coaches equals a container load. That is not too bad, but the savings are not that incredible either.

So far I have done nothing, the coach is in the garage for now so there is no urgency yet.

I also found the California Tow Truck Association has some kind of special deal with Michelin to get tires at quite a savings. They are shipped to a Michelin dealer who installs them for you. Those worked out to about $600 each, but I never got an answer from the CTTA . I was thinking I could easily start a tow operation, right? Then again, maybe POG could get a similar discount deal arranged with Michelin. I have no clue how to set that up though.

Looking forward to hearing further ideas from you all.

[Kevin Erion]

Peter, correct me if I am wrong but I think the five year time will limit you on the Michelin or Chinese tire. We all face the same problem with getting to the time out before the wear out period. I feel that after five years you are traveling on borrowed time that could cost a lot more than just a new tire.
I installed Goodyear RV tires on my 99 Marathon, 315R80-22.5 and although I needed some help due to irregular wear, Goodyear stepped up and gave me 4 new tires for the labor only after 32000 miles. I will keep using them as long as they will keep changing them FOC due to a funny wear pattern.
Kevin

[Ray Davis]

How much did you save with the Goodyears? As I remember when I was looking for tires about 15 months ago, I was going to use Goodyear. But, they weren't supporting the 8.5 rims which were on my rear wheels.

Ultimately they "said" that if Michelin supported the smaller wheels, they would.

But, as I remember the cost difference was $100, and I didn't want to mess with a "maybe supported" for $100 per tire.

Ray

[Petervs]

Kevin,
This whole business of replacing tires after 5 years is one of the most amazing sales jobs I have ever heard of, right up there with putting nitrogen in tires or buying the $350 "paint protectant coating" at the new car dealer! There is nothing magic that happens to a tire once it is 5 years old.

There is a great deal that happens to a tire during its life depending on how it is driven, what it is driven over, what inflation pressure it is run at, where it is stored, ambient temperatures it is stored at, how often it is removed for a flat repair or whatever, etc....

The calendar life limit is but one small factor. Do you change your car tires at 5 years? Do the truckers change their tires at five years just because the calendar says so? Of course not. Usually heavy trucks are driven enough that the tread might be worn down by then. Maybe.

Aircraft tires are not changed on a calendar basis, at least mine aren't. Airliners would wear them out much faster by use, but private airplanes often have tires that last 10 years or more. Business jets too.

I believe tire condition is important. Examine the tread depth and evenness. Check out the condition of the rubber sidewalls. Consider where and how the coach is stored. Consider your driving experiences with them. Have you run over lots of curbs? Consider the weight the tire is carrying compared to it's rated capacity.

Then again, consider what will happen if you have a tire failure. One possibility is it will not hold air. If you are filling it all the time, better replace it if you can't find the leaky valve stem. Not a big deal.

Another possibility is it fails while driving, well, that could happen with a new tire if you hit a sharp object just as easily. A simple flat tire might be a little inconvenient if on a trip, or could become a big deal. If a tag or driver tire goes flat, you can easily drive slowly to a repair location. Only the front tires become a "you are stuck there" problem. There is the possibility of a catastrophic failure that damages the coach, but that would be unusual and uncommon, and as before, could happen with a new tire too.

It is really a matter of deciding you want to spend $6000 on tires every 5 years or considering the minor extra risk there might be if you did not do it that often. There are plenty of other parts on the coach you might want to replace on a calendar basis too if you want to get carried away with this approach. Air bags, shock absorbers, brake actuators, all the fluids, radiators, hoses of all types......this can get absurd. Better sell the coach and buy a new one every couple of years. Prevost would be happy, the converters would be happy, and the used coach dealers would be happy too.

So, I have analyzed the overall situation for MY coach and decided I should have front tires that are not too old, but for the rears I am not so concerned. And as I said before, I would rather drive on 10 year old Michelins than 4-5 year old Chinese cheapo tires. That is my opinion. Obviously everyone should draw their own conclusions. But blindly replacing perfectly good Michelins on the 1825th day seems ridiculous to me. If you do that, please give them to me and I will use them a while longer!

[Kevin Erion]

Ray, I got the inside deal with my Race Team deals. I still think the tires are working OK.
Kevin

[garyde]

OK, Here is what I have learned to date; 315/80R 22.5,

a. Yokohamas = 6 for $3300.00 before tax Ventura, Calif.
b. Michelins = 6 for 5162.00 incl tax Ventura
c. Firestone = 6 for 3515.00 incl. tax Ventura
d. Sumatomo = 6 for 3185.00 incl. tax Ventura
e. Michelins = 6 for 5470.00 incl tax Santa Barbara, Calif.
f. Michelins = 6 for 4950.00 incl. tax Prevost, Mira Loma

My tires have approx 63k miles to date and have about 1/4 to 3/8" tread remaining. so I believe I am ready to change out, plus the tags are rounded at the edge of both side of each tire. They are about 5 years of age.
If all pricing is equal in terms of labor , recycle, tax, etc. I am about $1700.00 difference between the lowest cost Japanese tire and the lowest cost Michelin Tire Quote. I don't believe I can justify purchasing anything but the Michelin for that difference.
Prevost will only sale Michelins so that tells me they prefer this tire to any others .
The Tire dealer in Ventura said there are 13 or so Tire Plants in China. But only three can be trusted to produce a reliable tire. Sounds like a spin of the roulette wheel to me.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I asked my tire guy what the charter companies were running and what they cost.

Most are running Kumho 315-80, 365 bucks a tire tax and instalation included.

I also got a price on Michelin XZ 315-80 and they were 652 bucks tax and mounting included.

Gary if you go to that prevo rally in Canada maybe you should hold off on that purchase and get them coming through Illinois. Our guy is 5 min. from I-80. Just a thought, looks like it could save you close to 1500 on 8 of the Michelin.

Stoney tire 1 708 474 4114 They would also sell your old ones for dump trlr tires for somewhere in between 75 and 100 each depending on condition.

When we bought our bus I was ignorant to tire codes and age concerns. On the truck I can run a new set of tires bald in 1 and 1/2 years max so up until the bus it was a non-issue.

The bus has Michelin with better than 80% tread no adverse wear patterns however after learning tire codes found they are all 2001.

Our bus has always been stored outside to my knowledge and currently all tires have dry-rot cracking. I have seen this before and am familiar with it. When we bought our bus the tires would have been right at 5 years old and I know that they were already showing signs of cracking. So much for that Michelin quality.

I would have to assume if parked inside the cracking would be reduced regardless of make. I have NEVER seen cracking on the inside of a tire, only out. I have begun to replace them but because of the cracking. I do not think that the age issue is as important as physical condition. If we had tires with older codes but still look good I would run them.

As for make I have run Michelin and bridgestone both, on the steer, and after much aggravation trying to balance them started using ANYTHING, literally buying the lowest cost tire the tire shop would have at the time.

I discovered the off brand tires do not have balance issues, wear just as good, last just as long and ride the same for a whole lot less.

I have gone over half a million miles through gravel pits and very undesirable off road construction conditions and have never blown a off brand steer tire.

[win42]

Why am I not suprised a French speaking bus builder would only use a French speaking tire manufacture. Joe has the slant and experiance on this subject. I'm amazed we all ask and few listen.

[garyde]

In speaking with the Tire people, the speed rating of the tire comes up. Do the Japanese, and American tires have the same speed ratings as Michelin. As Joe mentoned cracking is a big deal. My first RV had cracking on Michelins on the inside walls of the tires and so I did not realise the problem until my 2nd blow out in one year. Those tires were about 5 years old, so I replaced all of them.

[dale farley]

My Michelins were about 5 1/2 years old when one blew out and wiped out my air bag with it. Two days and $1800 later I was back on the road.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Some observations about tires.

We've gone over much of this in the past, but here goes again...

The 'official' word from Prevost Car is that their products were designed, tested and fitted with Michelin tires. They only recommend Michelin tires.

As Gary noted, in the 'motorhome' application, most tires fail due not to tread or sidewall wear per se but due to dry rot, which begins on the inside of the tire, which of course, is not easily visible.

For more frequent and higher use applications, many fleet operators use Toyo, Kumho and Yokohama tires, but they are changing tires due to mileage and wear much more frequently than 5 years. In speaking with some entertainment coach drivers, they usually figure that they get about 100,000 miles on tires prior to replacement, but again, that's way before 5 years.

My take on all of this goes something like this: If you can save, say $200/tire that's $1600. Amortized over about 5 years, you're saving just $300 and some change each year by going with a non-Michelin product, which may indeed serve you well.

Don't know about West Coast driving, but in the Florida environment, a motorhome is about the worst way of treating a tire. Drive like crazy to get there, stop for the winter in very hot, humid environment with a lot of direct sunlight on tires, don't drive that much over the winter and then drive like crazy going back.

Each spring, around Exit 1 in Georgia there are tons of RV's, trailers and automobiles pulled over to the side of the road with blown tires. This suggests that once they heat up, the over-age tires are gone.

If I am driving a 25 ton coach down the road at 70 mph with basically 8 square feeet of contact with the highway, I want to have the very best contact with the road and the best tires I can find. My family is the most important thing in my life and I wouldn't mortgage them for $300 a year. Heck, I might even stretch out the purchase of new wool socks and sandals to be able to afford the very best tires I can find.

When a tire goes on a Prevost, as roadrunner says, bad stuff happens very fast and can be very expensive. It is also dangerous as all get-out. We've had reports over the years of extensive front end damage, underbelly damage, suspension, you-name-it...and let's not forget about the potential for harm to others and their vehicles as well.

I'm no big fan of buying non-American products when you can, but that's a dying idea, as it seems just about everything is made somewhere else. However, many Michelin tires are constructed in, of all places, The Oklahoma Territories, which is more or less in the United States.

All in all, with the marginal cost difference between the Michelin tires, and all the rambling dissertation above, I'd have to stay with recommending the Michelin, with replacement at 5 years.

I do have in the back of my mind the image of a Marathon that was hauled into Camp Prevost in Jacksonville that blew a front tire and rather dramatically introduced itself to a huge palm tree on I-95. The front of the coach had displaced itself just to the rear of the passenger seat in the meeting. When I think about tires and the marginal cost difference, I think about that coach.

Don't get me wrong, I like new exciting ideas...but not when it comes to tires.

2 cents and you can keep the change if you'd like.

[win42]

JPJ: Gary said he blew two Michelins. Have we heard of any other brand causing pre-mature failure. In the past we had to replace all of the new Michelins on our fleet of trucks due to road wandering because of weak side walls. I do not think Michelin can walk on water. I tried to get Goodyear to talk to us at our rally through Skiffer, I do not know what their response was. That Marathon that took on the tree, what brand of tire blew? I'm pretty sure inflation has everything to do with tire failure.

[Just Plain Jeff]

HH:

Good post.

We don't have an accurate history of brands vs. tire failures, that's for sure. Bill Jensen from Prevost at Branson said that the problem with the Michelin bus tires is that they have very stiff sidewalls relative to other bus tires, that's why tire pressure is so important. Underinflated bus tires will cause failure (at least that's how I took it).

I don't know the brand of the Marathon tire as it was GONZO; but the techs said that they were 'old' tires. That was the point I was making. There are a lot of variables in all of this; age, use, inflation history, weight/speed rating, etc.

You are getting close to a great conclusion here about tire pressure. That indeed may be key. Don't know how many times we have pushed the issue of TIRE PRESSURE but it is critical.

In other words (Lord help me for saying this) YOU ARE RIGHT!

[win42]

Tire Pressure: Another old guy story goes. In 1960 I walked into a Western Auto Store in the Texas Panhandle carrying a split ring from the wheel of my blown out 10,000 pound trailer tire. Two old fellows sitting in front of the store asked me what I had. I explained another blown out trailer tire. " How many ply?" 8 ply, " How much air?", 42 pounds. "You should carry 80 pounds, one pound for each ply else they will get hot and blow." I followed their advice and never blew a tire since. I realize those tires were not the same as todays, but really how much difference could there really be as far as inflation saving tires destroyed by heat. I'll keep mine to the upper recommended pressure thank you.
"Old guys know"

[jello_jeep]

I am with you on this one. I bet when quarterlies are off someday, it will change to four years!!



Kevin,
This whole business of replacing tires after 5 years is one of the most amazing sales jobs I have ever heard of, right up there with putting nitrogen in tires or buying the $350 "paint protectant coating" at the new car dealer! There is nothing magic that happens to a tire once it is 5 years old.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Peter,

Serious question along these lines.

Do you change your ELT battery at the date required or have you analyzed it and determined if you do not use it you can get a few more years out of it?

We both know the battery is a long way from dead on the manufacturer's date for replacement.

(For non pilots that is the battery in the Emergency Locator Transmitter on a plane and like our tires the manufacturer puts a date, and replacement is two years.)

[Petervs]

Yes Jon, I do change the ELT batteries by the date required. I have 5 ELT's since I have 5 airplanes ( well 2 belong to my kids but I seem to maintain them...). But that is a federal law. It was originally based on the idea that the batteries should be changed when the expected output was 80% of new. Newer ELT's use better batteries ( plain Duracells) that require changing only every 6 years or so instead of 2 years on the old ones. And if you cut up a current "Old" style ELT battery, you will find 6 modern Duracell AA potted together in a package, that's all. Those potted units require 2 year replacements, the ones that use the Duracells loose can go 6 years. I wonder if the ELT battery companies really want to extend the useful life?

I wonder if the tire companies really want to extend the useful life of tires, or if they would rather just sell more and more tires to those gullible enough to pay for them? Of course they would rather have the sales and the reduced liability.

Changing tires at some arbitrary date is just a sales job gone overboard. When this business of motorhome tire replacements first got going it was 5-7 years. Now it is just 5 years. Maybe soon we should do it annually?

[rff105]

Just received some tire quotes we have some uneven tire wear in the front end and the right side drive tires are worn more than the left side which look brand new. The bus pulls a good amount to the right even on flat road with no crown. So we are looking at getting an alignment putting two new 365s on the front changing out the 2 old drive 315s and putting the best two of the four 365s on the tag.

New tread depth on XZA 365/70R22.5 is 19/32
New tread depth on XZA1 315/80R22.5 is 18/32
All tread measurements are not taken to wear bars and in the center of tires. Take 2/32 off each tire for wear bars.
Steer – Driver (12/32) Pass 11/32)
Drive – Driver (Out 16/32)(In 17/32) Pass (In 7/32)(Out 8/32)
Tag – Driver (13/32) Pass (11/32)

Could the slightly larger drive tires 17/32 vs. 7/32 contribute to the pull to the right? Would you mix the new drive tires with the old by putting the 2 new on the outsides, or just put the new set on the passenger side duels because it seem like that side wares faster due to road crown?

Michelin XZA 365/70R22.5 are $630 tire only, 6 week backorder
Michelin XZA1 315/80R22.5 are $605 tire only, 8 week backorder

This bus only has 30,000 miles on it seems like a lot a tire wear from reading other post here where age comes into play long before tire wear.

[rbeecher]

Richard,

I could be off on this one but my thinking is that I would weigh the coach without any personal stuff on board and maybe just the fresh and fuel tanks full.

I'd want what we refer to in the racing world as a corner weight check but I'm not sure there is a way to get that sophisticated with a bus. I'm sure someone here can give you the best procedure. I would want to know the axle weights at minimum with tires properly inflated and then I would have the alignment checked and get a before and after printout.

You could have bent rims or be in need of shock replacements.

My 2 cents, hopefully others will chime on with their thoughts.

Richard Beecher
2002 Marathon XLII
1996 Vogue for sale

[rff105]

Here is a picture of the Right Front. Looking at the picture the left side is the outside (picture taken from the front looking back). The inside 4 ribs look OK with even wear. The outside 2 ribs are worn slanted with about a 1/4" jump between the 1st and 2nd rib where you see the shadow from the dust on the floor in the garage.

[jack14r]

Last year I had my 2001 XLII aligned at Prevost Nashville.The technician and I talked during the process,the caster,camber and the toe in were off,the tag was off and the drive was off also.The technician told me it had never been aligned based on the type of shims that were used,he also said he had seen several new shells that arrived in Nashville from the factory that needed tires because of the factory alignment.I can't tell you how well it drove after the alignment,fuel mileage increased 1 MPG and a rumble that was present about mid coach went away.Before the alignment I had some tires that looked bad also.Jdub has the alignment data now because he owns the coach now,maybe he can post the data.

[Jerry Winchester]

Now it only rumbles when you drive it under 85 MPH. Never buy a coach from a race car guy. ;)

I'll dig up the data when I get to Oklahoma this weekend.

It drives perfectly.

[rbeecher]

Now it only rumbles when you drive it under 85 MPH. Never buy a coach from a race car guy. ;)

I'll dig up the data when I get to Oklahoma this weekend.

It drives perfectly.

Ahhh, JDUB,

After meeting Jack at a race in Virginia last year, I'd say buying a coach from a race car guy is the only way to go.

Come to think of it, we bought our XLII from a race car guy.

Richard Beecher
2002 Marathon XLII
1996 Vogue 40 for sale

[BrianE]

After listening to the 5 year replacement argument for as long as I've been here (4/06), I decided to check up on A-1's facts. The ELT example tore it for me. Come on Jon, talk about apples and oranges. Sheesh!

While we all respect Jon's conservative approach, in most cases he can verify his info, it's time for a little challenge.

It's very possible that the 5 year "rule" is well documented in fact but I sure can't find it on the internet. What I WAS able to verify is that the Michelin Warranty I found states that some of their tires are warranted to 5 years. Many of their truck tires have a 700.000 mile 7 year warranty. Nowhere does it recommend tire replacement in 5 years. Additionally, after reviewing the Prevost maintenance manual and service instructions I could find no reference to tire replacement based on age. Donde es el poop?

In checking Michelin's publications I found the following brochures: http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinrv/toolbox/reference-material.jsp. Would suggest that a review of their Warranty also Service Life for RV/Motorhome Tires booklets would be helpful. Finally, as an added nail in he 5 year coffin is another brochure put out by Bridgestone. http://www.trucktires.com/bridgestone/us_eng/press/zip/RV_Brochure.pdf. Page down to the heading "How Old is Too Old"

Also did a little research into warranties and other info. Bridgestone and Firestone both offer a 6 year prorated warranty. Goodrich's is 4 years, Goodyear's is 5 years and Michelin of course is 5 on the size tires we run on our busses. The availability of 12Rx22.5 tires seems to be dwindling for the tire treads we prefer in our coaches with Michelin XZ2, Bridgestone R250F, Goodrich ST230 and Goodyear G149RSA's as other choices. There seems to be more choices in the larger tires and Prevost issued a Service Bulliton M104-11 which recommends the Michelin XZA2 as their best choice. Hope this helps.

Prices seem to jump all over the place. Peter has made the observation we need to try and cut out some of the middle-man money on our tires. Any ideas?

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

The following link leads to more opinionated information to help a tire user make his/her own decision on the tire age/life issue.
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=138

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Brian,

My comment about ELT batteries was made to illustrate Peter does do certain things that are time related even though the product is far from "used up".

Our tires are as critical as an ELT battery.

I wrote to Michelin and posted their response, verbatim. I can't find the post but it is here somewhere on this forum. But I did read the Michelin warrany. To explain further your excellent analysis of what everybody offers for warrany, Michelin is very specific in saying motorhome tires have a warranty up to five years.

They explain a few things that may help explain why their posture on five years compared to seven for commercial applications. Look for their warranty. In it they state that waxes and emolients migrate to the surface of the tires via flexing (as in use) and those compounds will help prevent the drying and cracking of the sidewalls (my words). We of course fail on that point. Secondly in the warranty booklet they also point out that for storage we have to raise the tires from the floor and keep them in a cool dry environment. We likely fail on that point. If we were to do those two things I would support Peter's posture 100%.

I personally would rather was money to prevent the potential harm that could occur due to a failed tire. We cruise at highways speeds often only a few feet from other motorists. We do not exercise our tires regularly, and I doubt if anyone except Dale takes the weight from their tires. Should one of our tires fail the good news is that our only cost is a roadside service call. More likely we will tear something up, and potentially we can have an accident.

Everybody needs to decide what they want to do based on whatever information they can glean from all the sources.

But to compare our bus tires with plane tires or tires on cars is not realistic. I calculate my plane tires are compounded for resistance to aging and not tread wear, unlike our bus tires. My tires might get 600 to 1000 landings, and might get 1000 to 1500 miles out of them. But they do not seem affected by age.

My car tires do not age well because as they age they seem less quiet and they lose the soft ride they offer when new. But they don't show signs of age indicating they are formulated different than the bus or plane tires. My point is that I Michelin wanted to sell more tires they would claim tey lasted seven years or ten years instead of saying five years, knowing we will shop for the cheapest that will make it for five years without blowing out.

[truk4u]

Hmmm, you have a blow out and take out the car next to you causing injury or death! At your court date and/or trial, the Attorney accuses you of negligence since the entire RV industry uses the magic 5 year date and your tires are older than the 5 years. When the jury is done with you, you no longer can afford the bus, the cars, the planes, the house and all those goodies near and dear to you and hopefully your not doing time. Remember, you must really be rich since your driving this Prevost.

Just a little tidbit to think about boys & girls....:(

[BrianE]

Jon,

The only point of my post was to illustrate there is no relationship between a warranty period and tire replacement criteria (which is a good thing, Tom). The Michelin Service Life Booklet and Bridgestone's How Old is Too Old Brochure are not warranty documents but are published to assist the tire user is determining when to change a tire. Michelin's only reference to replacing a tire based on age appears in their Service Life Booklet:


It is impossible to predict when tires should be replaced based on their calendar age alone. However, the older a tire the greater the chance that it will need to be replaced due to the service-related evolution or other conditions found upon inspection or detected during use. While most tires will need replacement before they achieve 10 years, it is recommended that any tires in service 10 years or more from the date of manufacture, including spare tires, be replaced with new tires as a simple precaution even if such tires appear serviceable and even if they have not reached the legal wear limit.

A simular quote from Bridgestone's "How Old is Too Old":


RV users, for example, often put no more than a few thousand miles on their tires a year. Their tires may need to be replaced because of age long before their treads are “worn out.” Is a 10-year-old tire too old? Probably. Is a 6-year-old tire too old? Maybe. Have your tires inspected. The age of your tires, along with their overall wear, condition of sidewalls, etc. are all factors your tire dealer will take into consideration when inspecting your tires and advising you on tire replacement.

I agree it is not realistic to compare our bus tires to other applications. BUT, as in ALL tire applications, tire condition, ride performance and environmental exposure are major considerations for deciding whether or not to replace a tire.

As always MOST of us will defer to your conservative and thoughtful advic. You will remember however that you have occasionally admitted that if you do not have the answer for a question you will make one up. In this case it appears you may be trying to justify your personal tire change criteria. I for one, would replace my tires at 5 years in an instant if you could offer evidence that age should be the determining factor in making that decision.
Incidentally, for a guy that is so darn careful about tire condition, it amazes me that you would expose the lovely Di to the lurking unknowns of Chinese tyres :)

[garyde]

As on so many forums, there is plenty of opinions. The general concensus here is 5 years is a good time to replace tires when considering replacing tires. In deference to Brian, one can debate , pull out charts, take testimonials and more, but when your on the side of a freeway, crawling under your RV with traffic 2 feet away from your head, the thought came into my brain 'maybe I should have replaced all of these damn tires after the 1st one blew out!' Penny wise, pound foolish.

[Coloradobus]

I have been told that tires while in motion generate a compound that protects them from UV rays. Sitting, as most of coaches do, and they aren't on the road daily, weekly, monthly like a charter coach, the UV devil will decay the rubber. Parking your coach indoors will help slow this process, so I follow the 7 year rule that is also not documented.
Our coach is a 1999 shell, and we just spent $$$$$$$$$ at Prevost Factory sevice center in St Nicolas, Quebec. We replaced many rubber products under the coach, rubber bushings, ball-joint boots, etc. These things didn't decay over night or even since we were last at Mira Loma---January 7, 2007. But no one there in January said anything other than all looks good after the grease job. Hmmmm.
The last we need to do is "A" arm bushings.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Brian,

Excellent point about the Chinese tires. I certainly gave a lot of thought about that, and that is why they are on the drive axle only. Right now they are holding air, they still ride smooth and don't have any balance issues, so I am optimistic.

If one of them fails it is probable I will not suffer any loss of control, but I may tear things up. It is a risk. FWIW the Michelins are 16 ply rated and the Double Coin are rated 20 ply. Both are DOT marked but I have no clue if that involves anything more than checking to see if they are round.

Coloradobus hit on one thing not previously stressed. I changed all air bags a short time back. They were about 10 years old, an age when some problems with air bags had appeared with not only me, but some other guys as well. When I removed them I planned to keep a couple for "spares". There was substantial cracking where they roll over the piston. My point is that stuff like our tires, air bags, and brake diaphragms are rubber and they age. Prevost's posture on air bags as expressed by Bill Jensen in Branson was to drive them until they fail, with no recommendation for life expectancy. I contrast that with the Prevost policy as stated in their manual that brake chambers should be replaced annually or every 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. My point being that unless and until we can get sufficient data we can only do what we feel is best for us and take our chances.

Right now all we have to go on is anecdotal evidence.

[win42]

So lets re-cap what we learned from Michelin, Jon, Brian et,all. As long as we suspend our Michelin tires from a strong cable in a dark cave at a constant 65 degree temperature and the cable does not break we will be afforded the maximum use of our Michelin Tires. Well thats simple enough to understand.

[jello_jeep]

So lets re-cap


Re-caps not allowed Harry :)

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

These things didn't decay over night or even since we were last at Mira Loma---January 7, 2007. But no one there in January said anything other than all looks good after the grease job. Hmmmm.

Chris or Jim, When you were in Mira Loma getting your bus checked the first of this year, WHAT did you specifically ask them to do on your bus?

Did you specifically tell them to check all rubber components, ball joints, seals, gaskets and things like that, or did you just ask for a General inspection? Trying to understand how specific someone has to be to get things like that looked at?

Maybe the general Joe Bus driver, wouldn't want to know the rubber busings could have problems some time this year???

Gary S