Jake Brake / Trans Retarder

[utahcamera]

Were looking at '08 H models. Marathon/Featherlite.

I have noticed that Featherlite orders all coaches with the Allison Trans Retarder and Marathon only seems to order coaches with the Jake Brake.

I know the trans retarder will put out more bhp and requires trans fluid changes more often; but is that the end of the story?

Any thoughts would be appreciated?

[garyde]

Hi Tim. There is a infinite amount of discussion within the last year regarding Trans retarders. See 'Engines, transmissions, axles, etc.' and do a search 'Allison transmission retarder and Jake brake' I hope you have a few spare hours. Good Luck:D

[utahcamera]

Thank you, I'll do just that. Not sure why that did not occure to me :)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Here is a short version FWIW....

If you are down to deciding on a coach based on whether it has a retarder or a Jake you are the luckiest guy in the world. ;)

But don't base your decision on transmission fluid changes. The interval for fluid changes doubles to 150,000 miles if you do not have a retarder, but...it is unimportant unless you intend to drive a lot of miles. The other condition for fluid changes is 4 years and that is a constant regardless of whether it has a retarder or not.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Were looking at '08 H models. Marathon/Featherlite.
I have noticed that Featherlite orders all coaches with the Allison Trans Retarder and Marathon only seems to order coaches with the Jake Brake.


Tim, Have you looked at Liberty's for your next bus, and if not, your reason?

Jon can correct me on this, but I believe Liberty too believes in the value of the Retarder vs. the Jake, and Liberty has the retarder on all of their bus's.

Gary S.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Liberty has retarders on all I have seen. I'm a fan of the Jake brake, but a retarder is not a show stopper for me.

[utahcamera]

Hello Gary & Peggy,

We have just not seen a Liberty that did not have an interior that looked like it was taken from Grandma's house. Also the word on the street (read ‘what other salesmen say”) is that Liberty will be the most expensive bus conversion. I’m 64 but I don’t want to be in Grandma’s parlor :)

Of course I can be wrong, perish the thought. ;)

[Just Plain Jeff]

[QUOTE=utahcamera;19387] Also the word on the street (read ‘what other salesmen say”)
QUOTE]

Uh-oh.

You have violated POG Rule Numero Uno: Never listen to what the salesman says.

Someone better loan these new, kind folks their SDR.

Welcome to POG!

[tdelorme]

Welcome to Grandma's old used parlor:)
http://www.prevost-stuff.com/2005Liberty654A.htm

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tim,

Be very careful if you are listening to salesmen and making your decision based principly on decor or colors.

It is the systems that count. A lousy color on the interior is a minor irritation compared to having an AC system that can't keep you cool on a month long trip through the desert southwest.

And the true definition of hell is being broke down and having a converter that will not jump through hoops to get you fixed and make you happy, and doing it RIGHT NOW, not when they get around to it.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

If I had a choice, I want both jake and retarder.

I would use the retarder as a supplement to the jake when needed and also as a redundant system.

If I had to choose 1, the jake.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

We have just not seen a Liberty that did not have an interior that looked like it was taken from Grandma's house. Also the word on the street (read ‘what other salesmen say”) is that Liberty will be the most expensive bus conversion.:)

Tim, everyone understands what you are saying, except maybe Grandma?

You have got to like the interior, the exterior, and everything in between, however, like Jon said, Liberty is one convertor that seems to JUST BEND OVER BACKWARDS to help their Bus family when they are in need of help.

And yes you are correct, Liberty will probably be the most expensive convertor out there, but at least I think with PRICE comes quality, reliability, support after the drive away, and last but not least, Resale down the road.

I sure wish I had a Liberty to sell, maybe some day. :)

Good luck in your search, that is more than half of the fun.

Gary S.

[jack14r]

I have visited in the last year Marathon,Vantari,Liberty,and Millenium manufacturing plants.It is obvious that they all know what they are doing,the systems in most new coaches today include roof airs and no OTR air,only Liberty builds every new coach with cruise airs in the bays and OTR air,this is one reason that a Liberty will be more expensive.The day you buy is as important as the day you sell,ask each converter if they will buy the coach back,resale is indicative of Quality ask owners which coaches resale the best.Comfort is a hard thing to put in words,but my wife (who dislikes coaches in general) calls our Liberty the RITZ CAMPER.Since you are looking at 08 H models north of 1.5 million I would look at all of the big 3 manufacturers,like I said they all have something to offer.

[garyde]

Hi Tim. Come to a POG Rally and see some of the Liberty's POG members own. When it comes to Conversions, try to see as much as possible so you can make an informed decision.

[utahcamera]

Tdelorme and Jon,

Thanks for the link! I must admit my Grand Mother's parlor never looked like that! I did not realize Liberty make anything like that. Their web site only shows interiors that are just not “us”. Maybe when I'm in Florida in December I should take a look?

You’re correct Jon about hell; I think hell is married to Murphy. Been there done that.

And as I have made a good living being a salesman maybe I should understand the breed a little better? Jon is dang sure correct about the systems. Just ask me I own an ’07 CC!

We purchased a ’06 40’ Country Coach in Feb ’06 and then traded up (read lost money) for a ’07 45’ in June of ‘06. It has taken me a year to get things right. So being new to coaches we decided to just go for the best now that we know we like the life style. It’s just the deciding who is the “best” converter that is making me crazy. Of course I live very close to crazy as it is :)

I'll be at the Marathon NASCAR rally at Phoenix in November if any of you will be there.

[utahcamera]

Hello Jack14r,

Good advice. I'm lucky in that my wife likes the life style; however she still wants that nice real home to go home to. ;)

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tim,

You need to correct your thinking a little.

These coaches always need a little tweaking. They are not trouble free. They are very complex. They require maintenance and repairs. They depreciate like crazy. They are not an investment.

But, there ain't nuthin better. Not even close. The shell has been literally proven itself in millions and millions of miles in charter service on all kinds of road and in all kinds of weather. Unlike anything else on the road the shell has been refined based on that service experience. And Prevost goes out of its way to service you as a customer.

The same can be said for some converters and their conversions. Those who have been doing these conversions for years have had their interiors and systems refined over the years, and like Prevost they will jump through hoops to make certain you are happy and all of your needs have been addressed. You can find out who does the best by reading the posts on this site and the prevost-stuff site.

The layout, the systems, the colors, the decor are presonal choices. Without a salesman telling you what you want you should create your list of wants and needs and rank them according to importance. You are an experienced RV owner so you already know, but just may never have written it down.

Take your time. Especially since you are contemplating a new or nearly new coach. You are going to take a bath on depreciation so make it worth while. Get what you want.

Have fun looking and deciding. And ask us questions. If we don't know the answer we often make one up.

[Just Plain Jeff]

We've veered off the topic of Jake brakes and retarders, but that's OK, since this is an important juncture.

For any new Prevost coach buyer, be it for a preowned or new conversion, after years of immersion in all this, there is no, 'best coach.' There is, however, a 'best coach' for a couple.

Many of the quality converters, probably a number that you can count on one hand, make great coaches, each with their own good and bad points from a technical and aesthetic point of view. Some are evolutionary in design and construction; some quite revolutionary.

The best way to find out a good match for the buyer is to get thyself to Prevost Alley in Florida and go spend a day or two at Liberty, Parliament, Millennium, Marathon and Vantare. If you're out west, stop by Beaudry and also see the CC Prevost conversion. It's likely that what you will discover a personal best.

If you get the "Aha! This is it!" after that, then you are ready for the secret handshake and know that you have done your homework well.

Jon is coming along pretty well. I try to teach him about the mechanical stuff, and when he becomes more detail-oriented we are going to let him loose on the world.

Look out world. :D

[utahcamera]

Well, it’s not my very first Rodeo so I do know there will be problems and regular maintenance with any coach. I’m a bit of a change fluid and filter freak so I’m sure I won’t be disappointed in that area.

After getting into two new CC’s in less than a year I am learning a thing or two about free fall asset depreciation! However I also know that life causes death; so fools rush in and all of that stuff.

I’m pretty sure there will be a Prevost factory person at the NASCAR rally in Phoenix so I get his/her opinion on the retarder/jake issue. Everything I am reading says they (the retarders) don’t handle the dissipation heat via the radiator well, especially in the South West US summer temps.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tim,

You control the retarder. If you remain passive and ignore temperatures the computer for the Allison effectively turns off the retarder feature to hold temperatures to a limit of 300 degrees.

The retarder is more effective than a jake. If you want to get it stopped the retarder is going to be more effective. A jake has limited ability, but requires no effort on your part (and realy sounds sweet).

You really should drive both and get a sense of how they function. Everybody here can offer opinions but you are the guy spending the money.

[lewpopp]

Jon is dead right on nearly all of his information. He said that the coach is not an investment. THE HELL IT ISN'T, IT'S A DAMN POOR INVESTMENT if you are looking at from that aspect.

[utahcamera]

Hello Dr. Lewpoop,

I am impressed with the responses from the form members. A good value for my hundred bucks! Certainly a good return on my subscription! Good people and good information and worth more than what I paid for it so how can I go wrong?

So here are my summary thoughts, not in any particular order:

1. Life cause death; therefore I want my check to the undertaker to bounce. Heaven knows the kids (and relatives) have already gotten their share!

2. The Lord promises us many things however tomorrow is not one of them.

3. We have a beautiful home and enjoy coach travel about 4 – 6 months a year so why not?

4. I have lost far more money on “smarter” investments.

5. I’m making too big a deal about the transmission retarder vs. jake brake

6. “I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me” (Stuart Smalley)

Thank you all for your participation and sage advice! Give us a call if you ever wander through St. George, UT.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Relative to the first comment....Denny may be getting in touch with you. He is our POG funeral director.:D

[utahcamera]

You mean Denny takes bad checks? :)

[Ray Davis]

Tim,

Nice to know that you are in St. George. We stopped there for one evening enroute from Southern CA to SLC a year ago June. It will be nice to have a local POG member to contact, should we make the trip again!


Ray

[utahcamera]

You're welcome anytime were in town.

[dale farley]

Reposted for relevancy to a current thread