PA Class A/B non-commercial

[rff105]

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/driverLicensePhotoIDCenter/license_classes.shtml

I have been looking for any info I could find about big bus RVs and came across the above linked website. We have been driving 35’ and 40’ Vogues over 26,000 lbs since the 90s and have never had any problem with our class C licenses. We have always been asked by non coach owners “Do you need a CDL to drive that?” and the answer was always no, but I did not realize PA and some other states have non-commercial A & B licenses that are more or less specifically for RVs.

What are your PA A vs. B vs. C experiences? Other then the application I found online, what is involved in getting you’re A/B (written test, driving test, with your coach)? Has anyone ever received a ticket in PA for driving with a C license? What could happen out of PA with a C license (state with no requirement, state with similar requirements)?

Any insight will be helpful. I have a feeling our new H3 may draw more attention than our Vogues.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Hello and Good morning 105 interesting post.

I have just learned 3 new things. My home state of Ill has a non-commercial A B and C also that it IS a requirement for our bus/toad. Looks like a new web site to browse too.

I have a commercial license and would urge all who need any updated type of lisence to pursue it with-out fear. The most important thing when going is to make sure you have corresponding documents for both vehicles and both vehicles have ALL lights horn and reflectors, good brakes and tires. Often you may encounter a schtickler bureaucrat that will stop you from a behind the wheel test for these things. Also ALWAYS do a 360 degree walk around, or, pre-trip inspection before getting in the pilots seat, another bit they sometimes get on.

Go down and pick up a booklet beforehand and do a little study and it will be a piece of cake.

[BrianE]

Welcome aboard rff105. Your Changing Gears link pretty much says it all, it's a good resource for all of us, thanks for posting it. It has been our experience that State Police accept the licensing requirements of the state in which your license originates. That being said a lot can be learned by obtaining a Class A license. The testing requirements are nearly identical in every state and are not very difficult if you can find the time.

Incidentally, you can easily add a signature to your posts by clicking on "quick links-edit signature". This will help us get to know you and help answer questions about your new coach.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I hope the real driver among us agrees, but it is my opinion that even if it is not a requirement in your state to possess a CDL, that you make the effort and get one.

First, it will help any driver to develop a better understanding of our air brake systems. Second, it will likely have a favorable impact on your insurance rates if you use a company like Interstate. Finally, by taking the written and driving tests you are proving to yourself and the world that you take the responsibility of driving one of these coaches seriously.

We all have seen some folks that clearly should not even be driving a Class C and we need to set an example.

[shookie]

hi...shookie here outside scranton pennsylvania...i stopped to see pendot today...it requires all drivers of non commercial motorcoaches to have a class b license...first, go to pendot webside and download form to apply for a permit...this costs 5 dollars....then, study the air brake portion of the cdl material for the written test for the class b status...then take your 26000 plus pound missel and show the authorities you can properly navigate it....this test must be by appointment only and you must have a licensed class b driver or higher on board for the drivers test....remember, you only have a permit at this time...if all goes well, congrats, you can drive you coach...if not, simply continue to drive it without the b rating....i believe this is one of those things that is overlooked by the authorities...maybe, maybe not....well....cheers, shookie

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think we are in a time similar to when the CDL first became law. I think that was around 1991 or 1992. Some states, (and NY in particular because I lived there and knew about it) started enforcing the CDL requirements for motorhomes. At the time they would do a traffic stop and if the driver did not have the CDL the coach was effectively parked until a licensed driver was available to move it.

There was a huge outcry and eventually it was clarified that RVs did not require a CDL in NY.

Now, however the states are apparently recognizing the need for a driver license applicable to the big RVs and more states have specific laws relating to them. Your home state that issued your driver license is the state whose laws you must follow regardless of where your rig is licensed or where you live. If you require a CDL or non CDL equivalent and you do not have one when stopped, it is possible you will have your rig towed to a place for storage until you can get a licensed driver to move it for you.

[Ray Davis]

Let me ask a clarifying question.

In CA, you only need a class B license IF the motorhome is longer than 40 ft. 40 ft motorhomes (even over 26,000 lbs) are specifically ok to drive with a class C license.

Given that, my question is: It is legal for me (a class C driver) to drive a 40 ft motorhome with CA tags through PA? I assume yes, based upon what I've read, but want to make sure.


Ray

[Orren Zook]

4506.03 Commercial driver's license or temporary instruction permit requirements.
(A) Except as provided in divisions (B) and (C) of this section, the following shall apply:

(1) No person shall drive a commercial motor vehicle on a highway in this state unless the person holds, and has in the person’s possession, a valid commercial driver’s license with proper endorsements for the motor vehicle being driven, issued by the registrar of motor vehicles, a valid examiner’s commercial driving permit issued under section 4506.13 of the Revised Code, a valid restricted commercial driver’s license and waiver for farm-related service industries issued under section 4506.24 of the Revised Code, or a valid commercial driver’s license temporary instruction permit issued by the registrar and is accompanied by an authorized state driver’s license examiner or tester or a person who has been issued and has in the person’s immediate possession a current, valid commercial driver’s license with proper endorsements for the motor vehicle being driven.

(2) No person shall be issued a commercial driver’s license until the person surrenders to the registrar of motor vehicles all valid licenses issued to the person by another jurisdiction recognized by this state. The registrar shall report the surrender of a license to the issuing authority, together with information that a license is now issued in this state. The registrar shall destroy any such license that is not returned to the issuing authority.

(3) No person who has been a resident of this state for thirty days or longer shall drive a commercial motor vehicle under the authority of a commercial driver’s license issued by another jurisdiction.

(B) Nothing in division (A) of this section applies to any qualified person when engaged in the operation of any of the following:

(1) A farm truck;

(2) Fire equipment for a fire department, volunteer or nonvolunteer fire company, fire district, or joint fire district;

(3) A public safety vehicle used to provide transportation or emergency medical service for ill or injured persons;

(4) A recreational vehicle;

this continues on with more exemptions listed in the code, I won't bore you with the rest - but RVs are currently exempt from this requirement in Ohio. I would think that the RV industry and the AARP lobby would raise such a stink that polititians seeking reelection would think twice before enacting more stringent laws..... anyway Denny, Jim C, jonnie and I can enjoy a free ride for the time being!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Most state laws are reciprocal, meaning if your home state does not require it, the state you travel in will not require it. However, a few years ago there were virtually no requirements for a non commercial Class B, and now they seem to be required in quite a few states.

I think as long as you are legal to drive in your home state you are OK, but why not get one in your vehicle before they are required? That way you can actually bring the bus you own to the test, without a licensed driver along side of you. Our buses will get you a Class B commercial license with an air brake endorsement because they are in excess of 26,000 lbs and they have air brakes. It is the one time when there is no restrictions on driving your own bus for a driver's test. If you wait until it becomes law, then to drive it on a permit, and to take a driving test you must have a driver licensed for the class vehicle.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Ray, to go a little further. An Individual obtains a license in a particular State. If you drive to another State, your license is honored buy that State.
Even if you wanted to be licensed in more than one State at the same time you are not permitted to do so.
If you do not like the laws in the State where you live, find the residency requirements for the State that has it's laws formulated to your liking and establish residency in that State. You may not have to move.

[Ray Davis]

I have considered getting a class B, and will probably do so with my 40 ft coach. That's one reason I didn't opt for a 45 ft coach, in that I couldn't legal drive now, and wouldn't have an easy way of getting a 45 coach legally out to a testing center.

I've got the materials from Ken Z, who has successfully gotten a class B in CA.

Ray

[Denny]

Orren,
Thanks for the info on Ohio driver license.

Jon,
I looked into a CDL a couple of years ago and wise advised against it. First of all, Ohio law does not require it for RV use and secondly, if stopped in a car for a violation it is viewed differently with a CDL than a regular license.

Until laws change I will stay with what I have or some one advises differently.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

What do you mean about CDL being treated Different? First, unless you choose to go Commercial route the CDL for your coach will be a non-commercial. the closest analogy I can come up with is that is shows you can drive that class of vehicle, like having to have a motorcycle license.

Second, I know for a fact that your insurance is discounted if you have a Class B. That means it pays to make the effort.

I have had a Commercial CDL, Class A for years (and still have a current medical) and I have never been treated shabby because I had it.

Anybody else out there with a class B or a CDL that wishes they did not have it?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Some days, yes, I wish I had never had one:rolleyes:

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I have to agree with what Denny said.

I got out of a speeding ticket,(car) just last year, but the judge asked to see my drivers license, before he released me. He told me he was checking to be sure I DID NOT HAVE a CDL, or I would not have gotten out of the automobile speeding ticket?

TRUE STORY.

I don't know anymore about the different license's than that, but just let me say, I do think if you drive a big bus, you need to have the proper training, and correct license to go along with it.

Gary S

[Orren Zook]

Jon,

As a CDL holder you already know that any violation points you might get outside your home state for say speeding, assured clear distance, etc are added to a CDL but are not added on the 'standard' license also CDL holders are are more accountable in other situations such as the BAC level for CDL holders is .04 instead of .08 here - I'm sure it is the same in other states. Also additional charges for the license itself and the physical exam add to the cost.

Here's a link to the Ohio BMV information:

http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/driver_license/cdl.htm#Disqualification

[tdelorme]

"I have to agree with what Denny said.

I got out of a speeding ticket,(car) just last year, but the judge asked to see my drivers license, before he released me. He told me he was checking to be sure I DID NOT HAVE a CDL, or I would not have gotten out of the automobile speeding ticket?"


I have a Texas class B license that I had to get to drive my 12 yd. dump truck with farm tags. A year or so ago I got a speeding ticket in my daily driver and though no big deal I will do "deferred adjudication" and keep it off my driving record. When the judge saw my class b, she said "sorry, you are not eligible for DA." Deferred adjudication in Texas is a deal where you go to an 8 hour drivers education class and when all the paper work is done the citation goes away. I think you still pay the fine and pay for the drivers ed. class but it does not show on your driving record.
So, yea I think that with a class B your not going to be cut much slack when it comes to things lights being out, making a daily walk around extra important. But, when the time comes that a class B is required for a 40' + coach, I've got it covered and don't have to worry about it.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Sounds like we have a bunch of scoflaws on this forum. I guess there is a benefit to driving no faster than 62.5 MPH.

I'm gonna have to be careful when I fire up the ole macerator to get the tailgater off my donkey.

[jack14r]

I got stopped a few years ago for speeding and when the officer saw that I have a CDL he said "you did not have your seat belt fastened" I agreed and I only got a seat belt ticket and not a 65 in a 45.

[Jerry Winchester]

I think this falls under "plausible deniability" in that if you don't have to have a CDL to drive your coach and you get stopped without it, you might get some slack. If you do have one, they expect you to know your stuff and thus you get nicked. Plus the points thing that someone mentioned earlier, so if I didn't already have a CDL, I wouldn't go get one just to prove I out studied the next goober in line.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think a COMMERCIAL driver license, as opposed to a Non-commercial class B can be a double edged sword, and a lot of what happens depends on the cop.

Just from the posts here, it appears a cop may hold a CDL driver to a higher standard and that works against the driver. But, unless you are doing something really stupid, I get the sense the cop may see the CDL and believe your livelihood is at risk if he hangs a big offense on you, and he may let you slide.

Personally, if I was a cop and some guy in a Prevost was blowing by everybody (which I have seen a lot) and he did not show me a license that proved he had the driving skills necessary to drive a big bus, I would go out of my way to spank that guy.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I would go out of my way to spank that guy.

I am guessing that is FIGURATIVELY speaking Jon???? :confused: :D

Gary S.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Let me think about that for a minute......

Yes.

[Will Garner]

I've been through this in NC. I'm sure the law varies from state to state on the Class B license, however the CDL should be identical nationwide. Let's start with the CDL. You are not eligible for a CDL in North Carolina unless your are capable of carrying 16 or more seated passengers and or you will be towing a trailer with a gross vehicle weight in excess of 10,000 pounds. Towed wheels down vehicles don't figure into the equation. Next license down is the Classified B. For this license there is a 50 question touch screen test that you must answer 40 questions correctly. Then there is a road test. The touch screen test is all about tractor trailers, there is not one question about buses (Prevost or otherwise). I took the test without any preparation I hit the magic 40 correct mark. In fact I was 30 for 30 before checking the count. I guess knowing I was doing so well took off some of the pressure and focus because I only hit .500 on the last 20 questions! By the way, "overtracking" is the term used to define the rear wheel set on the trailer tracking inside the wheel tracks of the tractor. I missed that one. Of course the examiners wanted to know why I cared about anything other than the regular Class C license since my bus was an RV and therefore exempt from any requirement for a higher skills license. I did have fun with the examiner, yes a female, when it came to the road test which I took the day after the touch screen test. She had never been in a Prevost conversion and we joked about being able to take it to Myrtle Beach South Carolina if she wanted perform an in depth evaluation of my driving skills or lack thereof. I bet that last comment has opened the door to lots of replys coming my way.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

She had never been in a Prevost conversion and we joked about being able to take it to Myrtle Beach South Carolina if she wanted perform an in depth evaluation of my driving skills or lack thereof. I bet that last comment has opened the door to lots of replys coming my way.


Especially if YOUR wife ever reads this posts....:o :eek: :D

Gary S.

[Will Garner]

Gary,

I told Carole how much fun I had taking the road test, including the possibility of going to Myrtle Beach. She thought it was great that I could have so much fun at our DMV office. Our experiences at that office usually do not have us leaving with a smile on our faces.

[Darl-Wilson]

I think a COMMERCIAL driver license, as opposed to a Non-commercial class B can be a double edged sword, and a lot of what happens depends on the cop.
First I can't see any value in getting a commercial license but obtaining the appropriate operating license for your motor home is simply good sense. Imagine the field day a below average attorney could have if you were involved in a minor bodily injury traffic accident and you were not properly licensed to drive your 24 ton Prevost. Better have a BIG umbrella policy! I am surprised that the insurance companies don't require the RV license. Secondly, I think the anticipated response from law enforcement is grossly overblown. I haven't been stopped for a traffic violation for almost 18 years and have never had a moving violation. Trust me, that doesn't mean I always drive in full compliance with the law! About 5 years of my 69 year life was spent as a class 'A' commercial truck driver. It seems to me that the treatment difference from a 'C' license to a RV or 'B' is going to be negligible unlike how one may be treated with a commercial or 'A' license.

In summary, if your state requires an RV license for the vehicle you operate I think you will avoid a lot of headaches by complying with the law. That doesn't mean being "over-licensed" but with the RV permit the secure feeling when you hear a siren or have a close call is worth the minor effort required to obtain the license. I also agree with Jon about gaining some knowledge while studying for the test. Furthermore I agree with Joe C. I am glad I no longer need a class 'A' for my job!:eek:

[rff105]

I think i am going to send in for my non-commercial class A permit because i would like to be able to tow a trailer. However my car trailer is 26' and we all know from reading the other trailer threads all about over length. My question is do i need to take the H3 for the driving test and i have a 10' trailer that would keep me under or at the 65' combined limit in PA. I did fine backing up the 28' with the 40' vogue but a 10' with the 45' H3 might be a challenge with the short wheel base. What do you think the test will include? and do you thing keeping the setup under 65' is probably a good idea? I should look into borrowing someones 25' plastic RV but will i need something with air brakes for the test?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

The test might not include having to pull a trlr. I would look into that first.

If so I would try it with the longer trlr first cause it would be way easier to back up and they might not check length.

If all else fails do it as you suggest with the short trlr, with a little practice first.

[rff105]

i agree the 28' is 8'-6" wide and is EZ to back up with the long wheel base and the sides line up with the coach. The 10' is only 7'-6" wide and wold be lost back there, by the time you see it turning it would be to late.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I have seen short horizontal poles with flags that attach to the rear of short skinny trlrs that can not be seen from the drivers seat and the flags will indicate where the thing is.

If need be I would not be embarrassed to use them.

You could rig up almost anything. Also if your forced to the shorter trlr experiment backing with the tag up to see if the bus will chase the small trlr. quicker in that mode.

[Darl-Wilson]

The test might not include having to pull a trlr. I would look into that first.
I agree with Joe, forget the trailer. I live in Nevada where we have a 70' limit. I pull a Toad but did not take it to my test. The A or B license ALLOWS you to pull a trailer but you are NOT obligated to pull one or test with it. Many RVers do not pull trailers but their license would allow it if they chose to pull one in the future.

BTW, like Joe stated earlier, do a good walk around and explain to the examiner what you are doing. That was required in the Nevada test and tests I took several years ago in CA for a commercial license.

Good luck! You'll do fine.:)

Darl

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I cannot speak about how other states view this, but in TN if the trailer and load exceeds 10,000 pounds you need a class A, no matter if it is being pulled by a pickup or a Freightliner.

[rff105]

Well I stopped by the local DMV for some misinformation today. The fist two guys at the photo desk did not even know a non-commercial A and B license existed until I showed them the description in the drivers manual right on their desk. They then pointed me to the driver’s exam guys saying they know more about that kind of stuff.

The first driver exam guy also had never heard of a non-commercial either and pointed me to a fourth examiner. He asked why I would want a non-CDL anyway and I explained the motorhome thing and showed him the example right in the book. They did not know if there would be any written exam or what to study for the driver’s exam. They also did not know how the air brakes would be handled. The examiner explained to me that Pennsylvania is a “let live free state” and the police do not bother motorhomes. I explained that I under stood that but the insurance company or a lawyer might not see it that way. He proceeds to tell me that I should just get my CDL and be done with it. His way of telling me he knew nothing about non-CDL and was not going to find out.

I really would prefer not to get my CDL for all the reasons some have mentioned above. I guess my next step is to try to call Harrisburg to find someone who knows how to get a non-CDL class A.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh those wonderful bureaucrats.

I laughed my way through most of your post 105. Sorry couldn't help it.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Good luck. When NY was waffling originally I checked with the DMV (no luck), the state police (no luck, even though they were starting to give tickets), and finally when I asked someone in Albany and he gave me an answer to indicate it was required (since rescinded, and now I think restored again) I asked him to send me a copy of the law or regulation and his response in writing.

Can anyone guess if I ever got it in writing?

[rff105]

Well after not being discouraged by local DMV I went ahead and ordered my Class B Non-Commercial learners permit for $5.00. It came in the mail in mid-December with no additional information except for a letter describing how to schedule my test on-line through the DMV website. Prior to today studied the CDL book since I could not find any information on what would be covered in the non-commercial test. I scheduled my test for today jumped in the coach with all my paperwork and my class B buddy and it was off to the DVM to se what would happen.

I was the first test of the day. When we went outside the tester wanted to know why we did not park in the DMV lot. When he saw the bus he knew why we parked across the street. He made my buddy drive it around the block and into the parking area they use for the Class B CDL tests, I do not know why he would not let me drive it with the licensed co-pilot but I did not want to start the test by arguing.

The test consisted of: light test, parallel parking test in a space big enough to park a tractor trailer, and a road test. Road test: basic driving, signaling, traffic laws, we did a simulated pull off on to berm to check tires were he was looking for signaling, four-ways, and parking break. We went on to the highway for one exit where he asked me what the bridge height was for the bridge we just went under. I told him I was looking but did not see a sign and he told me that there was not one. We drove back to the DMV where he told me the only thing he had on me was not looking around enough when cornering. I did not want to argue with him but with those large mirrors properly adjusted I do not need to move my head noticeably to be checking the mirrors.

Anyway I passed the driving test, there is no written test. I asked him about the air break endorsement and he said you do not need one with the non-commercial license even if the vehicle is equipped with air breaks. When was registering for my permit their was also no place to list endorsements, so I guess I will have to take his word on that one. I received a paper license correction card and for $10.00 I can get a new license issued or just carry the paper card until mine expires.

All legal now and ready to head to FL next week with the family for some service at Camping World (aka Featherlite, I’ll let you know how that goes) and Disney with the kids.

[Ray Davis]

Way to go in passing your test.


We went on to the highway for one exit where he asked me what the bridge height was for the bridge we just went under. I told him I was looking but did not see a sign and he told me that there was not one

Now, that's a bit of a nasty trick, isn't it? I understand the need to watch for road height signs, but isn't it fairly safe that on major highways, we're not going to find much that we're concerned about?

Ray

[rff105]

I read in the book that they may ask you a bridge height or weight after you cross during the test so i was prepaired. But when he asked me i tought i missed someting. PA does not post bridge heights on bridges over about 14'6".

[pognumber17]

I'd be interested in the source of your IL info, Joe C. I believe the IL reference in the Changing Gears website is incorrect. In fact the IL DMV website he links to has almost verbatim the same language as OH rules cited by Orren Z.
Thanks
Mike Spitz

[win42]

Here I am on the eve of taking my behind the wheel driving test tomorrow at 3:00 PM in Yuba City, Ca and I opened this thread oh my god. I'm told to check both mirrors often when backing.

I passed my written ok and tomorrow I will be paralell parking my 40' Prevost between cones. If I pass I'll be back on here tomorrow night, if not you probably will not here from me for a while. For the tbc now you know why I still own a 40 footer, but not for long I hope. Say a little prayer for me please.

[garyde]

Good Luck Harry, I know you can handle it. Let me know how it turns out.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Pog17 I was going by what I read in changing gears posted by RF105.

I've had a CDL my whole life so never really looked into it myself when we got our bus.

Where did you find info contrary to changing gears? I looked at the Ill site and couldn't find any info?

[Ray Davis]

Harry,

Good luck on the test. Let us know how it goes! I'm considering going for the Class-B (non-commercial) even though my 40ft doesn't require it. Who knows, someday I may need to drive someone elses 45ft bus in an emergency. I'd like to be licensed in that case.

I'd be interested in hearing the details of your test.

Ray

[win42]

SHOOT UP A FLARE !!

The old geezer passed his one hour long behind the wheel test. They did not miss a thing.

Ray: You better get a class B book and read the part where all Vehicles over 26,000# and air brakes require a class B license. Our motorhomes allow a Class B non commercial. I took my test in my 40 footer. The inspector asked me why I did not have one sooner. :)

[BrianE]

Nice going Harry. Would guess the worry was much worse than the test. Now you're over the hump it's Shirleys' turn, right? :)

[Joe Cannarozzi]

That's great Harry must be a good feeling.
Did you really think you were going to get through any experience with a bureaucrat with out at least one stab?

[Ray Davis]

Ray: You better get a class B book and read the part where all Vehicles over 26,000# and air brakes require a class B license. Our motorhomes allow a Class B non commercial. I took my test in my 40 footer. The inspector asked me why I did not have one sooner

Harry,

Glad to hear you passed. I don't believe what you're saying above is true. Motorhomes are explicitly granted on a class C license, up to 40 ft, even with air brakes. That's my understanding. I will try to find the reference.

Ray

[Ray Davis]

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648.pdf is the document on the California DMV site regarding RV licensing. Page 2 specifically indicates a class C license may drive "any housecar" (which is a vehicle licensed as a motorhome) up to 40 ft in length.


Also from the above referenced document:

You are not required to pass an air brake law test or to perform an
air brake system check if your housecar is equipped with air brakes.
You will be asked to perform a Vehicle Safety Check which the DMV
examiner will help you.


Ray

[Ray Davis]

Hey Harry,

What documents did you use in your study for the tests? You mentioned above a Class B manual, however I cannot find a Class B manual. There is a CDL manual, but that is specifically for commerical Class A or B.

That manual is referenced in the RV manual I cited earlier, so I've printed it, and am going through it. But, I just wanted to check if there is another manual I should be looking for?

Ray

[truk4u]

Congrats Harry, did you tell the inspector that the last driving test you took was with a horse and buggy?:D

[rfoster]

Harry: After seeing you and Shirley Blow our doors on the way back from Branson, I never had any doubt you could get r done. Keep on keeping on.

[win42]

Hey Ray

The person giving me the behind the wheel test for a Class B license ran me through the full air brake test on the coach. The Rec. Veh. and Trailer handbook indicates a 45' housecar equipped with airbrakes are not required to pass a air brake law test or required to perform an air brake system check. However he required me to perform such a test before taking to the road test. He also claimed any vehicle over 26,00 # required the B license. As I read the manual I was exempt from the air brake test, but it was ok to do it anyway.

Ca. Driver Handbook 2007 pg. 5 under class C license: You may drive any 2 axle vehicle with a GVW of 26,000# or less, any three axel vehicle weighing 6,000# or less, any housecar 40 feet or less. You figure out what this means.

Cal Commercial Driver Handbook 2007 obtained from DMV is good reading for any of us novice drivers with our monster machines.

[Ray Davis]

So, that is actually a bit concerning. It seems like the instructors are not familiar with the law here in CA. The Class B non-commercial license is fairly new, I think, and perhaps they are just not familiar with the requirements.

The requirements are clear, spelled out in several places in both the DMV code, and in several DMV handbooks.

Class C may drive up to a 40 ft motorhome. Period. They may drive any other vehicle up to 26,000lb. However, with Class C you can't drive like a 26,001lb truck. That does require a class A license.

I did a search through the 935 page DMV code (in PDF format), and there was very little about air brakes, and they all had to do with the commercial license. If your are taking a Class A (even non-commercial) AND your vehicle has air brakes, then you have to pass an air brake safety check. That is in the law.

A Class B test is not supposed to require an air brake test. Granted we should ALL be able to do one. But, they are requiring things on the test that are NOT required for Class B license, and that bothers me. It seems like they should have given you a Class A non-commercial after that test.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

When I have done seminars for POG members about our air brakes and the systems I know a lot of guys are not familiar with how the brakes operate, and definitely are not familiar with how to do a pre-trip inspection.

While it is nice we are exempt from being required to know this stuff, the failure to at least have a basic understanding of the systems could save a lot of grief in the future. The commerical driver books are an excellent resource for learning and understanding what is probably the most critical part of our buses.

[phorner]

Sounds like good advice. After checking out the Florida DL website, it doesn't look like they offer a non-commercial Class B license.

They detail the requirements for the CDL, then list exemptions from the requirements, which includes all recreational vehicles.

"CDL Exemptions
The following persons are exempt from the requirements to obtain a commercial driver license:

Drivers of authorized emergency vehicles that are equipped with extraordinary audible warning devices that display red or blue lights and are on call to respond to emergencies;or
Military personnel driving military vehicles; or
Farmers transporting farm supplies or farm machinery, or transporting agricultural products to or from the first place of storage or processing or directly to or from market, within 150 miles of their farm; or
Drivers of recreational vehicles used for recreational purposes; or
Drivers who operate straight trucks (single units) that are exclusively transporting their own tangible personal property which is not for sale.
An employee of a publicly owned transit system who is limited to moving vehicles for maintenance or parking purposes exclusively within the restricted-access confines of a transit system's property."

So, it would appear that you can legally drive any recreational vehicle with the Class E drivers license.

However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't know how to operate our vehicles safely and follow all the typical requirements as if a CDL was required.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Put aside any concerns about the CDL or state's requirements. As a driver of 20 plus tons of motor vehicle I want to know if my brakes work, how to know if there is a problem, and if there is a problem what the significance is.

We have warning lights and buzzers. They can be interpreted as meaning there is a problem. But if we have been tooling along in the fast lane, oblivious to the preliminary clues that buzzers and warning lights were about to go off, are we also aware of what is going to follow the warning lights and buzzers?

At that point it is a wee bit too late to pull out the handbook.

Not part of any CDL test are other less important issues, but important enough to be part of the need to know category. Our engines and transmissions are also equipped with sensing devices such that if some of them detect a problem you may be a few seconds away from coasting to the side of the highway. Some of the sensors that I know from personal experience that will have you along the side of the highway are the coolant level sensor (common), the turbo boost sensor, the throttle position sensor, and the oil pressure sensor. On the turbo boost sensor and the TPS sensor there is no warning per se, you just go to idle. On the coolant and oil pressure sensors you get alarms and warnings and following that your engine stops running, courtesy of DDEC.

My point is if you do not want to get a CDL that is fine, but at least try to understand the basics of the operation of the coach. It may become very important some day.

[win42]

Put another way:
Ca. Driver Handbook 2007 pg. 5 under class C license: You may drive any 2 axle vehicle with a GVW of 26,000# or less, any three axel vehicle weighing 6,000# or less, any housecar 40 feet or less.

However if in front of a jury defending myself where a compact car cut me off and I could not avoid the accident driving my 50,000# house car. I feel more secure in the fact I have a Class B license in my pocket indicating I passed a DMV written and behind the wheel test which included full air brake testing along with a current medical card allowing me to drive the heavy vehicle.
Thank you all for your positive remarks on my passing the test. Because of my age of over 70 I will have to renew the license every year with a current medical form from my doctor. Not a bad thing, but inconveniet.

This is the end of my discussion on this subject.

[Ray Davis]

I think my point was lost in the mix. My point was that the inspectors are asking for information or testing on things that are specifically NOT to be included in the test.

I don't have any problem performing an air brake test, and will do it without problem. However, what I have a problem with is inspectors NOT either knowing the law here, or deciding that their interpretation is more important.

The air brake test is on the commercial test. Along with a LOT more than just the in-cab test we've talked about at POG. What prevents an inspector then from trying to test you on the other portions of the commercial test, which aren't applicable to the Class B license.

I agree whole-heartedly this information is valuable, and I plan on getting a class B license, even though my coach does not require it. But, that doesn't excuse inspectors testing on things which are specifically indicated in the manuals as NOT required for class B.

FYI, at least in CA, the only thing a class B (non commerical) license gives you the authority to drive is a motorhome larger than 40 ft. In CA driving a motorhome is not dependant upon whether or not the coach has air brakes. It's specifically a non-issue in the law. That's my point.

Ray