AGM or Gel Battery

[blacklab]

I need to replace my house batteries. Batteries Plus sells AMG 8D's for $550.00 each. Does anyone know if/where I can buy them cheaper?? Also, AMG vs. Gel??

Thanks

[MangoMike]

BL,

I replaced the AGM's in my Liberty, also from Battery Plus for about that amount. I believe AGMs are the only way to go.

Here's some info:

"Gel Cells use a thickening agent like fumed silica to immobilize the electrolyte. Thus, if the battery container cracks or is breached, the cell will continue to function. Furthermore, the thickening agent prevents stratification by preventing the movement of electrolyte.

As Gel cells are sealed and cannot be re-filled with electrolyte, controlling the rate of charge is very important or the battery will be ruined in short order. Furthermore, gel cells use slightly lower charging voltages than flooded cells and thus the set-points for charging equipment have to be adjusted.

Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries are the latest step in the evolution of lead-acid batteries. Instead of using a gel, an AGM uses a fiberglass like separator to hold the electrolyte in place. The physical bond between the separator fibers, the lead plates, and the container make AGMs spill-proof and the most vibration and impact resistant lead-acid batteries available today. Even better, AGMs use almost the same voltage set-points as flooded cells and thus can be used as drop-in replacements for flooded cells.

Basically, an AGM can do anything a Gel-cell can, only better. However, since they are also sealed, charging has to be controlled carefully or they too can be ruined in short order."

Additional Information here:

http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html

MIke

[Alek&Lucia]

http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/default.aspx?pageid=843

look for your closest location, place in Nashville is great, they will even install them for you.

[dalej]

Are yours 8d or 4d size? I was talking to Lifeline (Justin) owners son about the POG discount, he said that 529 or 497 delievered to the rally site. I said I would get back to him if there would be interest.

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/rvbatteries.php

[blacklab]

Mine are 8D & I need 5. I will not be attending POG IV. Batteries Plus does distribute the LifeLine brand and I'll stop in and ask for a discount on 5. We'll see. PS These things are heavy, like 150-160 lbs. When I tried to lift one my feet come off the ground!

[Ray Davis]

I replaced my house batteries last March with AGM batteries from MK.

http://www.mkbattery.com/

They were roughly 1/2 the cost of lifeline (I don't have absolute figures available right now), but I put in 4D's for somethere in the low $225 range?

They are working great.


Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I want to echo what Mike posted. For anyone considering batteries the rage in the early 90's was gel cell and it was frustrating for some.

The environment the batteries are placed in is important in the selection process. If the batteries are in an area where heat is generated, such as near the engine do not use Gel cell because they cannot handle the heat. They will literally explode. For areas such as that flooded cell are best, which is why the coach batteries are likely to be maintenance free flooded cell batteries such as Delco 1150.

Where heat is not an issue AGM or Gel will work, but no matter what is installed the inverters or chargers must be set to the charging protocol. On our inverters, and I assume all inverters there are ways to set the inverter to the charging cycle required by the battery and to limit the voltages as well. AGM for example cannot be charged at the more common voltage of 14.2.

When changing batteries it is important to consider all the necessary conditions.

[lewpopp]

Ray, I am going to change my batteries this winter and have a MK outlet close to me in Florida. I haven't received a price as of yet. As soon as I get back to Fl. I'll start working on that.

Did you check out all of the other specs and compare them to Lifeline? My coach takes 4D size also and I need 6.

Lew

[rfoster]

Mango: Boy am I impressed, I thought Jerk Chicken was your speciality and founding member of the TBC.

Great info, your a real asset to the forum, no matter what JDUB, A1, Truck and Loc and all the others say about you.:cool:

[MangoMike]

Fast Roger,

Don't be too impressed as it's information I tracked down on the internet. The only reason I had even an inkling as I had to spend some Lewbucks on the Mothership's batteries and tried to do my homework prior to purchase.

Now, as Tom is found of saying, back to Jerking my Chicken.

Mike

[Ray Davis]

Did you check out all of the other specs and compare them to Lifeline?

Lew, at the time Nick Hessler was here, and we made a comparison. As I remember, we didn't find the specs all that different to warrant any concern. Also, none of the places I tried had Lifelines in stock. They could order them and get them in a week, but when you need batteries "now" ....

Their specs are on the website, give them a gander.


Ray

[mikedee]

I installed 6 MK's, 8-D's about 3 months ago and paid about 307.00 Ea. delivered. They are well built, weight the same as Lifeline, have the same output rating but cost a lot less.

I am getting excellent performance from them and would recommend the batteries.

[MangoMike]

I wish I would have known about MK's before I installed the Lifelines. Again, joining POG is going to save someone a lot of Lewbucks.

See you turkeys at POG IV.

Mango

[dalej]

FYI, I had talked to Justin at Lifeline and this is what he said....

When you look at East Penn / MK AGM batteries please be aware of their published cycle life. They publish that their batteries can cycle 350 times at 50% discharged. Lifeline Batteries can be cycled over 1,000 times at 50% discharged rate. Now, we also offer a 5 year warranty and they only offer a 3 year warranty. Please keep in mind to that Featherlite/Vantare has been an OEM client of ours for over 10 years. They switched to East Penn/ MK AGM batteries about three years ago and came back to us within 6 months and had very bad problems with those batteries. If you need anything else please let me know.

I don't have any interest in Lifeline but will need batteries within a couple of years though. It's nice to know the facts for sure.

[dalej]

I think it would be nice to find good products and suppliers and then coop the purchace so we can save a few bucks. I sure don't mind bringing glass to a rally so people can save $35 each. Tires are a good item along with batteries.

[Ray Davis]

Dale,

So, this brings up an important question in my mind. Let's say that the comments are indeed 100% true, i.e. 350 vs 1000 recharge cycles. My question, is that actually important to me?

So, I think we're all talking about only house batteries for AGM batteries. My house batteries are always on charger when the bus is stored, and generally I've never really run them down even 50% many times.

Now, I know that many do dry camp, and this does happen, but in the normal operation of most buses, how long does it take to get 350 recharge cycles from 50%? My guess is that it's years? Maybe longer than I'm going to hold the batteries anyway? I believe Jon's recommendation is to change batteries every 5 years maximum?


I'm not arguing for or against Lifeline or MK batteries, but trying to figure out perhaps something more important. When is specmanship important. Clearly the Lifeline specs are higher. Again, is it important? I don't know. Perhaps the most telling part of their statement is that Featherlite switched, and came back in 6 months?

It would be interesting to know the "rest of the story" from Featherlite.

Ray

[gmcbuffalo]

I have heard that the Military uses Gels in Iraq and it is hot there. Anyone no where the batteries are in a Military HUMVEE?
GregM

[lewpopp]

I don't no, do you no?

[blacklab]

I finally found time to install my new house batteries. Lifeline's >$400.00 each. My question is with my Heart inverters, do I set the DIP switch to "wet" or "gel" ??

[mikedee]

I installed 6 MK 8D at a cost of about $315.00 Ea. including delivery. They are well built, same ratings as Lifeline, and are performing great.

I called MK direct in Anaheim CA and asked for the dealer price. The battery price went down like my last stock pick.

ODR Indio, Space 50 heading to the next race in Phoenix on Tuesday.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The Lifeline web site has all the charging cycle information and the Heart manual has the settings for specific battery types. The problem is the AGM seems to fall in the middle between the wet and gel.

Mine are set to the lower settings but I cannot tell you why other than I think that is the safest. (I did not set them, but did look to see how they were set)