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Jon Wehrenberg
09-10-2007, 02:43 PM
On another thread Paul has posted some descriptions about issues he is having with his "new" coach. The issues as we all know never happen during business hours, Monday thru Friday, so the potential for a minor issue to turn serious is fairly high.

In Paul's case his house batteries were losing their charge.

His woes bring up a point for every owner to consider and address. How should the coach be set up for the use the owner wants to employ? For example, an owner that is going to do some primitive camping and attempt to get along on a 30 amp service is going to need to set up and use his coach completely different than an owner that is going to be parked outside the stadium on football Saturday with the generator runnning full time.

Shore power is limited and if a coach is going to rely on available shore power the owner has to limit what items are going to be used and when they are going to be used. For example, with 30 amps, it is probable the shore power can handle one AC unit, and the refrigerator, and possibly the TVs. If the inverters are set for charging, however they need to charge at a low rate so the current draw does not pop the shore power circuit with the other stuff mentioned above working.

On the other hand, the owner using the coach with the generator running continuously, can run almost anything whenever he chooses and also set up the inverter to charge at the highest setting so he can have all his sexy coach lighting going full blast and still maintain a battery charge. This and any type of dry camping probably is a justification for a high charge rate setting. This way the owner can rely on auto-start and the high charge rate will get the batteries charged quickly.

The 50 amp shore power service falls somewhere in between.

The key to understanding how to set up the coach and the switches is knowing limitations. As a practical matter a 30 amp shore power supply is capable of handling on a continuous basis about 80% of its rated capacity or 24 amps. Any greater and the risk of tripping exists.

A 50 amp service is actually 2 50 amps supplies or a 100 amp rating with 50 per leg. That means it can handle 40 amps per leg continuously or 80 amps equally divided between the two legs.

The typical generator is 17.5 KW or 20.0 KW. These can supply a rated load of 141.6 (roughly 70 amps per leg or 56 amps continuous) or 166.6 (roughly 83 amps per leg or 66 amps continuous).

Boring stuff until you start tripping breakers. At that point owners tend to learn what they can get away with and what they cannot.

The manner in which we use our coach is simple. We do everything from dry camping to 30 amp service to 50 amp service to extended use of the generator. So we choose to set our up for the lowest possible current draw. We have limited our inverter / chargers to their lowest possible battery charging rate. That way we have minimal current draw to maintain our 24V house circuit. The theory is that no matter how we use the power during the day and evening, we are still going to have about 8 hours for our batteries to get charged up while we sleep. We are not energy pigs because we know that excessive use of the power will deplete the batteries over time.

When we are on 50 amp service we can load up the devices we turn on at a given time. Instead of just a few circuits that we may have to juggle on the 30 amp service, on the 50 amp service we can plan on using two or more AC units, pluc the TVs, plus the refrig, plus the HW tank, etc. As long as the current draw on the AC panel does not exceed 40 amps per side we are OK because the battery charger current draw is minimal.

We always turn on the generator when we park overnight in a rest area or Wal-Mart. It keeps the battery charging, and allows us to run a lot of AC to get the bedroom temps down, and we can enjoy all the stuff we have on board. By keeping the house batteries charged we rarely have the chargers pulling a big load and even extended stays with only 30 amp are not problems. To make our set up work we keep the house batteries as fully charged as possible. And that actually is beneficial to the batteries.

As owners we have gotten to know that a multimeter is essential because when we do use our coach a lot, something may emerge as a problem, and then we need to know what we are dealing with. With a multimeter it is easy to verify the presense of shore, generator, inverter, or bus DC power. We can check for open circuit breakers, or for power going to a specific device.

The buses are complex, but rarely are there problems encountered. The buses are very reliable and it is usually the owner who had created the problem or issue that has to be resolved.

phorner
09-10-2007, 05:35 PM
Excellent post, Jon!! Power management is critical if we are to get the most enjoyment (and least frustration!) out of our coaches.

We live full time in our coach and spend little, if any time "dry" camping or tailgating. In our "old" coach, we had a single inverter/charger that was much easier to program through the remote panel. Trimming down the charge rate and setting the generator auto-start parameters was a snap.

However, as I'm quickly learning, our 2000 Prevost is quite different. The electrical loads can be considerably higher and the 2 inverter/chargers are not quite as user-friendly.

I believe that we had a localized power issue at the power pedestal which contributed to the spiral downward of our batteries since the generator auto-start feature was not on. Additionally, since we are still somewhat unfamiliar with the bus, low voltage issues went un-noticed and mis-diagnosed for far too long.

Also, when we lost AC power at the power pedestal, we didn't quickly realize it as the source problem and spent a lot of time/energy trying to diagnose a bus problem when there really wasn't any.

Thanks for all your help. I'm sure I'll be needing another dose in the not too distant future!!

dalej
09-10-2007, 05:47 PM
Jon, you said in the third to the last paragraph.. and allows us to run a lot of AC to get the bedroom temps down Don't you want the bedroom temps high? or.... why are yours so high?


Kidding a side, that was a good post, a lot of good stuff.

Just Plain Jeff
09-10-2007, 07:42 PM
Well here we go again with a 'longie.'

Thing is, with a coach, it's best to look for the simplest solution to a problem instead of magnifying it beyond recognition, something I have been guilty of myself. Often times, there is a little thang going on which may appear to be a major problem because of the effect of what happened.

Pretty sure, since I am absolutely clueless with a wrench, that this comes from a lack of knowledge of the various systems in the coach from a hands on basis. There are those who are mechanically gifted and they share or make up stuff here to help the rest of us out. Understanding something in the abstract is helpful, but it doesn't get you back on the road.

We had one side of our shore line down and I was pretty sure that it was due to some major thingamabob going wrong which was going to cost about $27K to fix, and it turned out that the plug itself had corroded slightly. A coupla spins with a Swiss Army knife cleaned up the problem and we were good to go.

A major benefit of a POG rally, inserting a pitch here, is that for a coupla days you get to hang out with other people who have complicated coaches and have varying experiences with their coaches. No matter what your problem may be, it is likely that you are not the first one to have that problem. Getting more insight into the operations of the coach, common solutions to the little things make a huge difference in the enjoyment and use of a coach. If something major does happen, well, that's pretty rare in most even fairly well maintained coaches if you keep your eyes and ears open. So, it is the everyday stuff that makes us all nuts. Knowing what to look for and where is the first half of the problem in many cases.

Of course, the first rule of running down the road in a Prevost or other major league coach is this: Nothing that happens fast is usually good. That one you can take home.

So ownership and use is a fairly long term learning curve, longer for some of us than others. Don't be disheartened by early frustrations or errors in diagnostics.

One of the top Prevost techs told us early on: "No one here knows everything about every system on the coach. That's why we each have a specialty." And they do their work full time, as in getting paid for what they do.

So that's a 2 cents worth of advice. You can keep the change if you'd like!

Jim_Scoggins
09-11-2007, 05:42 AM
just plain jeff said:

Of course, the first rule of running down the road in a Prevost or other major league coach is this: Nothing that happens fast is usually good. That one you can take home.

Great thought. I liked it!!