Planes.. Shouldn't be here !!

[lewpopp]

I was talking to a bunch of guys this morning and one was a pilot. I mentioned how I joined this POG and all the a-holes wanted to talk about is airplanes. I said all I knew is that you guys spoke of a "V" tail and some other crap.

My pilot friend said" oh, you mean those Doctor Killers."

He explained that it was the most unsafe Beachcraft there was. As far as I know, he's an expert in my judgement.

I respect his judgement beause he is a 777 captain and knows airplanes. I wish I could follow a discussion with you air freaks and him and see where it ends.

I'll get the hell off before my long deceased mother haunts me for ragging on you poor pilots. There is only one thing that comes out of the sky and it always lands on the car. Better than my head.:D :D

[truk4u]

Hey Louie,
Your friend is correct about the "doctor killer", but it wasn't the plane, it was the doctors who usually went out and bought new Bonanza's with little experience and no instrument rating thinking they were invincible.

I usually don't post here about planes, thought it was a Prevost site, but this will be fun to watch!:p

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lew,

I'm surprised your 777 driver friend didn't go on to say all those little planes should be banned from the sky.

I really hate to get serious on this forum, especially about planes, but the reality is that if a plane is certified and well maintained it is safe to fly, but the weak link is as Tom points out the pilots that do not work to maintain their skills.

I have pulled JDUB's chain a little about his plane, but it is one of the best general aviation aircraft flying. It is well built and a joy to fly. Ask your 777 friend if he thinks the Cirrus is a good plane. Right now the pilots of that particular make of plane are doing themselves in at a fairly brisk pace.

Flying is serious business and when you get someone with enough money to buy a plane that has more capability than the pilot possesses you have a potent and often deadly combination. As an example, my plane is pressurized, has all kinds of weather detection equipment, navigational capability galore, and is certified for flight in known icing. It has the capability to bring a pilot with more balls than skills right to the scene of the accident.

It ain't the plane its the pilot.

[mike kerley]

Well said Jon,

I remember as a young man, giving check rides to guys who wanted to rent from us on weekends (part time job while going to school and building hours). The doctors who were gods (in the operating room) and the airline captains (who were to close to god, to often) were the toughest to deal with. How well I remember, "your going to tell me how to land this toy, when I fly a 707 every day" or "don't tell me when to flair, I was removing kidneys when you were a gleam in your fathers eye". Man, they were tough. But, they did it my way, (at least while I sat there) or they didn't get the keys, and they all made it back.

Thankfully, most airline captains understand the risks of flying and the good ones are very concerned about "doing it right". There are good and bad in every profession.

And I think the V tail bonanza is a great airplane. That 777 captain probably cant afford one with the pay cuts they've been taking.

[Jerry Winchester]

I can't agree more with what has been said. And Tom, this is the only thread on the site we are encouraged to talk about planes in and Jeff put it up so those of us who were pilots, as well as Prevo guys, could chat about plane stuff, so don't be afraid to plane-a-way.

I am kind of amazed a 777 captain would say that, but I am also not surprised. As an instrument rated pilot of 26 years, I have heard my share of comments in the air. Regional Approach points me out to some Southwest pilot and his reply is, "I have Marcus Welby in sight". Of course I have ripped a few ahole airline pilots as well, so it evens out I guess. Funny thing is, a large number of ABS or B2OSH members are airline pilots or military pilots. The oldest active pilot in the US flies a V35 Bonanza and he was a career test pilot and airline pilot. I reckon I will let him vote my proxy. When the last 777 is resting in the Arizona desert, someone will still be flying a 70 year old Bonanza.:)

At the end of the day, I fly because I love flying, not because I have to. Between annual recurrent training and flying my family around, I consider myself to be a very safe and experienced pilot. Many people cringe when they discover I am a pilot because they think I just recently learned to fly, but people who know me know I have been flying since college and they are always ready to fly with me, but the doctor killer image abounds with everyone else.

But I also hear the same thing about these folks who don't have all their original teeth buying $1,000,000 motorcoaches that weigh 40,000 lbs tearing down the road without any training or experience. ;)

[truk4u]

Jerry,
After 30 years of ownership of many single and multi fixed wing planes, I am fighting the R-44 bug. I thought MPD was replacing the aviation bug, but it never goes away. Please help me!!!!:p

Buses, Birds (planes) and Bikes on one board, I must be in heaven.... Can't wait for all the BS to fly at the Rally.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Well Tom, If Lew ever had any doubts about how insane pilots are, you just erased them. Why not start with an Osprey?

Lew, Tom aspires to an aircraft designed to beat the earth into submission.

[Jerry Winchester]

Just remember that a helicopter is nothing more than a fatigue machine trying to shake all its parts loose. :eek:

And you need to bring your coach or plane to OSH for the POG2OSH gathering. The unwashed and unannointed will commune with nature, aircraft and Prevost coaches simultaniously.

I am flying the evil, doctor killing Bonanza while the trusty Hitler youth (Jon & Mike) will be sliding in on polished wheels. I think Ken is going to be a swamper for someone; we just haven't decided what to do with a Mooney guy yet.

What plane(s) do you have? I have to say that now because Jon has his own airline.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

We'd better get an extension for the POG rally. There ain't no way we can be talked out in the allotted length of time.

On another forum I just saw where a Cirrus (brand new) lost its primary display in hard IFR (bad weather for Lew) and fortunately the husband/wife team on board were able to get over the shock, use their fall back instruments and get it on the ground. It was reported Cirrus is aware of the underlying cause. The wife had more than 2000 hours and was acting PIC and the husband had 1000 hours. It was speculated that had the pilots had experience levels of the average Cirrus owner they would either have pulled the cord (Lew: the Cirrus has a whole plane parachute) or augered in.

Anybody in this bunch of crazies own a Cirrus? Anybody want to?

[lewpopp]

I am the happiest person in the world to open up this can of worms. Oh, how happy I am.. Now you won't be calling me names on the other subject sections.:D :D :D

[truk4u]

Lew,
Don't let them fool you, IFR stands for "I follow Roads".:D

No plane now Jerry, sold my Arrow last year getting ready for the freekin bus,
sniffle, sniffle... Not in Jon's league, I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy..

Hey, whats wrong with 120 mph, 500' AGL smashing bugs while able to set down in a field at a moments notice to pee? Had a ride two weeks ago, I'll get over it!:cool:

Here's my list of ownership and happy times with the favorite at the bottom:
Cherokee 180 (2)
Cherokee 6
Cessna 182
Cardinal
Tiger
Arrow
Apache
Twin Comanche
Aztec
Baron
Debonair (best of all)

Jon, guess the days of needle, ball, airspeed are over. Thank God for technology.:rolleyes:

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lew....What makes you think that? I'm perfectly capable of multi-tasking.

What we all have to do is band together to protect ourselves from JDUB. He has left no stone unturned in his quest to insult everybody.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tom,

I am a steam gauge guy and will remain so. When the owners of the glass cockpit planes talk about their whiz-bang flying video games they soon realize they do not have any more capability than I have. Because they get used to their TV picture displays when that goes black they are in serious trouble because they have lost the ability to have positional awareness and their instrument scan has changed into an instument stare.

I'm not talking against the Garmin 430 or 530, but I have flown with several pilots who started flying when these types of boxes were in their aircraft. When we went on the gauges I sat and watched them fly the magenta course line. The were ignoring the OBS or HSI. Just for grins I would ask them to fly to a point in space. This position could have been defined by flying a radial or intercepting a radial. When that type of challenge was given they could not even determine which way they had to turn.

I am for improvements in technology and I love the pretty picture on my 396, but I was brought up learning how to determine where I was and how to go somewhere else by using the radios and dials. I am seeing pilots rely solely on the "direct to" button and they follow the line without any sense of whether they are doing it right or where they are relative to where they want to be.

I'll step down off this soap box now.

Do you intend to trade buses as often as you traded planes? I'm a stick with it guy because my current one has served me well for 20 years.

[Jerry Winchester]

Man, I haven't even flown that many types of planes much less owned them. You are the man.

The Deb is a sweet plane and the Stretched Deb is not bad either. My hanger partner just swapped his Baron for a V35 and he has really enjoyed it. He had the typical reservations and hounded me to death about it, but he is is really up since the price of avgas is $3.50 gal.

I have owned one plane - the Bonanza and I have owned one RV - the Prevost. I don't need a lot of things, just the best of what I can get.

Banded together for protection; what's up with that? Do we need to change it from the POG forum to the Eunuch Forum? You are starting to sound like Lew. I thought hazing was an olympic sport?

[truk4u]

Keeping your plane for 20 years is fantastic Jon, I just get bored with the same thing and look for something different. The last 10 years of my plane ownerships I had a great partner who took an early out with IBM and we would buy a plane needing a little work, fix it up, fly it for a few years and then sell for a profit. We did all our own work, he is an A&P and A.I. and he's still flying the Arrow. I was fortunate enough to use my planes in business prior to having a partner, boring holes in the sky with 3 or 5 empty seats. The partnership worked out great and I really enjoyed sharing lots of adventures. My partner took on some corporate flying and I was able to get some great Navaho and King Air time.

But now it's a slower pace and momma likes to see the country from the big windshield. I have managed to keep her for 40 years, glad she doesn't have propellers or wheels or she would be history! Now you know the story, red is her favorite color and the Marathon is RED! Hmmm, she never gave a rats ass about the red planes!:p

Now who has the Bonanza, I'll have a gift for you at POG?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Its not hard to keep one 20 years when you realize you have the best.:D

[MangoMike]

Obvisously Di doesn't subscribe to the same logic. ;)

[Jerry Winchester]

Did you just wake up from a drunken stupor? I thought you had gone to crap and the hogs ate you.:eek:

[MangoMike]

Not being a plane guy (yet) had nothing to contribute - so been hangin' w/ the swine (at the bar).

mangoink

[Jerry Winchester]

How goes the martini bar? The photos kinda dried up, so I figured you were renegotiating a union flair up or some such issue. I still can't figure what that stuff on the floor is, unless it is a giant martini chilling loop. I really thought Jon slipped in the shower, hit his head, sketched the flux capacitor out and you were building it in your bar. Too far fetched?

Oh, is that your old RV on the avatar?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Hey Mike, You don't have time to answer the emails, but you can take a shot? FYI, me and Lady Di hit number 45 this year. Looks like we both stick with the best.

We will make a plane guy out of you yet. Come to TYS and do an accelerated wrap up so you can go buy a plane to tow behind the bus.