Home Genset

[Just Plain Jeff]

Anyone got a Guardian or other such generator at home? We're looking to put one in. The Guardian guts are Generac which is a notoriously bad name in the POS motorhome biz. The home units have got to be better than what they sell for the plastic marketplace...Tom?

[Jerry Winchester]

Got a Honda. Starts every time.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

JPJ, be more specific. What is your intended use?

Permanent mounted standby with ATS, and Diesel or natural gas power?

Portable gasoline power?

How many KVA?

Had a 7.5 KVA unit from Grainger that ran on propane as a standby. No problems!

Didn't like the propane deal though. Expensive and a pain to keep full. Would recommend Diesel for a permanent set up if you don't have nat. gas.

If this is for you whole house don't get under 20 KVA.

If this is for your shop size accordingly, but remember finger loss is higher the more power tools you have.

Your Shaker furniture probably only requires a table saw and lathe and the usual assortment of hand tools. :)

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Being up there in the north woods you just might have a tractor. If so the power take-off driven units are more cost effective for certain kinds of use.

Your source would be your favorite tractor store. :D

[garyde]

Anyone got a Guardian or other such generator at home? We're looking to put one in. The Guardian guts are Generac which is a notoriously bad name in the POS motorhome biz. The home units have got to be better than what they sell for the plastic marketplace...Tom?

Depending on how much load, , Onan, Koehler, Cat, Cummins, are just a few, with deisel dual lined fuel tanks or a natural gas hook-up.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Should have provided more info:

Here's the deal: Guardian has 4 units from 8Kw to 17.5 Kw which are LP powered. There is a digital control system which is hardwired into specific breakers in the panel. When the voltage goes below a certain level, the genset kicks in (kind of a home-style Watchdog deal). It is programmed to go on every week, needed or not for a self-diagnostic test and runs for a bit. It is recommended to have 2-100 gallon LP tanks (which we need for other purposes anyway) in order to have extended use.

It also comes with a transfer switch to avoid back-feeding once power is restored.

What could possibly go wrong?

[ken&ellen]

Jeff, The Guardian unit, while has a lower intial cost, has some drawbacks or at least they use to. The engine is manufactured in China and is not pre-run at the factory nor does it come with oil in it. Break in is up to the consumer. Additionally they did not include a battery, but will gladly sell you one. If I remember some of the stats the LP rating is lower than the natural gas, but that may be common on many manufactures. Now for my favorite....top only accessible! Not a big deal unless it is snowing or raining hard.....where do you live? The Eaton Culter-Hammer units offer several service entrance rated units as well as units up to 100 KW. Briggs & Stratton engines up to 15KW and then Ford & Izsus up to 100KW. The larger sizes are private labelled by CAT. The Briggs units are supported by their nationwide service group as well as CAT service. Speaking of CAT they offer some very nice diesel units with self contained fuel tanks. Check it out. Ken

[truk4u]

Sounds pretty good to me.... When I build my house I bought the generator ready 400 amp panel from the power company that you have to manually move the power lever to Aux when power is out. I then plug in my portable generator I mounted to a little trailer and away we go. Here's the deal, GO BIG! Mine is 10KW and only capable of running the bare necessities.

I thought you tough woodmen in Maine lived off the land, what's up with this woosy power need...:p

[Just Plain Jeff]

I was thinking 'bus' and looking at a 17.5 Kw, remembering what that powered. We already have an oil-fired continuous hot water source for heat and h/w, so have that covered.

I'm done with wood heat. It gets all icky at the bottom of the wood pile in the summer. :D

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I have a 20 KW Kohler. It happens to be in the bus so if everything in the house loses power we are just going to move to the bus.

If you hadn't sold yours so you could buy finger removal tools then you wouldn't be asking the question.

[dale farley]

I installed a 30K diesel generator and changed my power pack to one with an internal manual transfer switch, so I can switch it myself when I need it. We get frequent blips of power loss that last for 1-5 minutes, and I didn't want my generator starting every tiime this happens. I try to start mine once a month and run it for a few minutes. Before this, I was using a 5K and 8K portable, plus the generator in my motorhome. This one will power everything on the farm including full 50 amp service to my bus.

I purchased it off eBay for $5500 and bought the transfer switch and associated wiring for about $325. I wired it myself and had it inspected by the county. It was made in China; so I don't know about the reliability yet, but so far, it starts and runs fine. It has the same engine as many small Ford/New Holland tractors. This may be more than what you are looking for, but I needed something to run my entire house, two water pumps, barn, and workshop that I use in support of the horse farm.

I installed it about 18 months and so far, I haven't had to use it. I hope it stays that way. I lost 14 building and over 200 trees during Ivan, so I'm hoping I don't see another hurricane any time soon.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

The generator you mention also runs to keep the start battery charged.

Some things to take into account:

Auto transfer switch is only good if generator is sized to handle the maximum load your household may ask for.
If you ask for more load then the gen. can supply you will have a brown out for a short time and may ruin your appliances etc. before it kicks out and if your not around nothing in the house gets any electric after the transfer switch kicks out until someone resets it!!!!
If you were not there would your wife do it.

The transfer switch needs to be as big as the electric service to the house.
(if you have 200A to the house you need a 200A transfer switch even if you only have say a 5,000 watt gen!), so if all you want is an emergency stand by unit to cover selective essential loads in an emergency situation I would recommend a manual transfer switch and a watch dog type start battery tender to maintain the start battery.

The electric usually goes off at (bad times) not in ideal circumstances. If you are not home and your wife is, will she be willing to follow the correct procedures to run at a minimum, or will you hear forever that you should have gotten the correct size unit for automatic operation?

The peripherals and instillation cost about as much as the gen. itself to a point.

[mike kerley]

In a perfect world (where ever that is) we would all have correctly sized generators and automatic transfer switches to power our homes in an emergency with a fuel supply good for 7 days and a plan to replenish it. Add to that a good maintenance aggrement that keeps the generator serviced even during those emergency times when its going to run for days on end. Not an easy accomplishment.

Next best thing is to get what you can and fully understand how it works and what its limitations are. Plan on doing at least emergency repairs and oil changes yourself or have a VERY GOOD friend close by to help. Generator service techs are golden during a crisis and you'll have trouble finding one. Keep extra filters (air, fuel and oil), and know how to change them yourself.

Its important to exersize the generator WITH A LOAD monthly. Let it run for 30 to 45 minutes with everything turned on you expect it to carry in an emergency. That does two things, tells you it really works and also allows the generator to both electrically and mechanically position itself to carry that load. It is much more involved, but you get the idea. Test it as you would use it. Its also a good idea to run for several hours on occasion just to make sure there are no gremlins lurking in the over 30 minute window.

Emergency generators are a beutiful thing when they work and have plenty of fuel and fresh oil and correctly connected to everything you need to work. A real embarrassment when they dont. Does it sound like I've been there??

Mike K

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

You hit the nail right on the head Mike!
Don't tell too much though. He might not opt to have one.

They're kind of like that free horse someone gives you:eek::eek:

[Jeff Bayley]

I just bought an Army Surplus Light tower with a 7.5 Kohler in it with the intention of using it as a back up Gen for the house primarily. Someone said you need a lot more than that to run the whole house (I guess the main A/C is the big thing). I've got mini split units in various rooms to stay in the A/C and I'm sure the fridge isn't goint to draw much but should I plan on needing more than 7.5 kw ?

Jeff

[truk4u]

Jeff,

7.5 will never do it. Mine is 10 Kw and is not sufficient. The 7.5 is only going to be good for about 34 amps (providing I did that right) using 220. If my calculation is wrong, someone else can jump in here.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jeff, the thing is no one knows how you live and what your household electrical requirements are but you.;) You must take all your electrical loads that you want the generator to supply and convert them to watts and add together to see what you need totally. If you want the generator to run unattended this is the least number size wise. If you only want a stand by generator that you will connect to when you need it then your generator needs only to be as large as the largest selective load you will connect to it. Plus a little more for start up loads of some devises.

amps X volts = watts

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

This link leads to a site that some of our now 380 members might find interesting.

http://www.priups.com/

[win42]

Safety is the first thing that comes to mind. I'm sure Dale has all the bases covered and had the system inspected by the county. Good job Dale.
In thinking about someone tying a new auxilary power source to your house service. The first thing comes to my mind is a power company employee on a pole tying in a supposedly dead line to make a repair and receiving your unknown 240V feedback from your generator. I know if proper equipment is used this will not happen but this is not a project for Joe McGee. Involve expert help or leave it alone.

[dale farley]

Harry, I agree about the safety. I did my own work, but I got expert advice from the electrical supply house and a friend of mine who works for the power company. I could have done this without having an inspection, but I wanted to make sure it was done right.