New member seeking advice advice on Volvo vs Detroit

[Starfire83]

Hi,
I am starting a new thread on a different newbie topic. I was originally looking at a 2011 H3 with a Detroit engine. For various reasons we are also looking at a 2013 H3 with a Volvo engine. I am curious to know the thoughts of the group on the Volvo? I am coming out of a Dutchstar a few years ago and my main complaint was the poor hill climbing ability of that coach. How does the Detroit and Volvo function going up long hills such as in Colorado. I will be towing a vehicle as I assume that matters. Does the size of the toad matter that much? I have looked at previous posts, but they are hard to draw conclusions as to the groups opinions. All opinions on Detroit vs Volvo are welcome as my brain is clear of pre conceived bias. Are there any issues with Volvo that I should be aware of in advance? My mechanic steered me towards Detroit because of the reliability and lack of Def.

Thanks again for your expert help in this search.
Jerry

[Ck2hans]

Can’t speak for Volvo, can tell you the Detroit is going to go slow up the hills but you could put your house on a trailer behind it and it wouldn’t matter. Plenty of torque.
Chuck

[Djhinds]

I would only buy the one WITHOUT Def. Save your self a ton of headaches... The Detroit is bullitproof.....

Dave

[Fratto]

I have also heard / read many negative stories on DEF. However, to my knowledge DD started using it in 2007 give or take so both of your options will have it. No information on hill climbing. You might try and find the Volvo specs and compare torque and hp.

[Fratto]

Just did a random search and seems like there are two versions of the Volvo D13?

One labeled motorcoach is 435hp with torque of 1650 and the other labeled conversion is 500hp with torque of 1850.

So at first blush, I doubt there would be much difference? Maybe the 500 would be better than the older DDs but not much? and the 435 would seem to be slower than even the older DDs.

Looking forward to hearing form someone that has first hand experience.

[georgiapeachinc]

Don't know about the Volvo engines but the Detroit sips the fuel. Great fuel mileage. That is something to think about also.

[Starfire83]

Thanks for the feedback. Interesting the the size of the toad does not matter according to Chuck. I only have experience with a Jeep Gladiator behind my Dutchstar and it was tough up hill. I sold the Gladiator and was considering what would be the next toad. I am taller and the Gladiator was just not that comfortable. My research shows that the Volvo develops maximum torque at a relatively low RPM and therefore does well up hills, almost the same torque as a Cummins 605hp. Not sure about where the Cummins peaks. I will be test driving so I'll see how it performs.

Any advice on toad preferences in the group? Chuck, we were thinking Jeep Grand Cherokee. Any thoughts on that choice?
Jerry

[Ck2hans]

Jerry:
We had 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit (JGCS) that we towed with no issues. Traded that in on a 2024 JGCSR, no issues with that either. Just took the JGCSR over the scales the other week, it came in at 5,890 (after subtracting my weight).

Remember these things are beast and weight a bit more than your regular class A, that’s where the safety factor comes in. But you will sacrifice some hill climbing performance because of the weight.

Spoke with the president of Prevost at a past Prevost Expo. He said every new body style that comes out has to be rolled over 5 times and maintained structural integrity before Canada & USA DOT will certify it as a mass transit vehicle. He did note that now days the do the rollovers in virtual reality and not with actual buses anymore.

Think about past news reports you have seen about accidents involving a Prevost bus. There was one a few years ago that went off the road and down a hill 50 feet and through trees on its way down with a bus load of band students. Some were hurt but not killed, when the bus was recovered and sitting back on the road it had broken glass and some twisting in the frame, but nothing substantial considering what it went through.
You’re going to sacrifice some hill climbing performance for that safety factor. Don’t get hung up on the slow ascent.
Chuck

[Fratto]

There are a lot of preferences in picking a toad. You will need to figure out what matters to you and what you are willing to live with. I think that it is FMCA that puts out a list of toads and what limitations each has. We pull a 4 door wrangler. We were willing to give up some ride and comfort for lower price, no limits on speed or distance pulled, no transmission coolers, easy installation of base plate and breaking system, etc. One no go for me was an electronic shifter on the transfer case. I have seen too many people struggle to get the transfer case in or out of neutral. Maybe user error, but I just did not want to put up with it ... lever and linkage for me. On that note, our 2003 wrangler shifter was hard connected and it was a breeze. Our current 2021 is cable connected and it is not as easy to get back in to gear as the 2003.

[Starfire83]

Thanks Chuck and Mark. We had a lot of trouble getting our Gladiator into neutral. Definitely made me swear sometimes and my wife had to take over!! I found that rocking it back and forth in and out gear really helped that a lot. I appreciate the comments about the safety of the Prevost bus and definitely one reason we are making that change. Will take a good look at the Jeep Grand Cherokee for sure.
One other safety question. The bus we are looking at (2013) has lap belts but no shoulder belts. I assume that your coach does not have these either. Was this ever a concern to you? Are you grandfathered for this if you get pulled over? Is there any way to retrofit a shoulder belt into an older Prevost?
Thanks,
Jerry

[Fratto]

We live in Texas and no one has ever commented on the lack of shoulder belts during a routine inspection. It does give you pause, but we are not looking to spend what it would take to get a bus that has original shoulder belts. I have not looked into it, but I believe that you can get a replacement seat that has an integral shoulder harness. They will not be cheap though; several thousand per seat plus install.

[PrevostNewbie]

Thanks Chuck and Mark. We had a lot of trouble getting our Gladiator into neutral. Definitely made me swear sometimes and my wife had to take over!! I found that rocking it back and forth in and out gear really helped that a lot. I appreciate the comments about the safety of the Prevost bus and definitely one reason we are making that change. Will take a good look at the Jeep Grand Cherokee for sure.
One other safety question. The bus we are looking at (2013) has lap belts but no shoulder belts. I assume that your coach does not have these either. Was this ever a concern to you? Are you grandfathered for this if you get pulled over? Is there any way to retrofit a shoulder belt into an older Prevost?
Thanks,
Jerry


If you drive with only the Lap belt you will see how easy it is to lean forward when you need to. For example when turning right at an intersection you need to lean pretty far forward to see how close the drive axle is to the curb. This is just one example.

[georgiapeachinc]

I tow a 2012 4 wheel drive 1500 Sierra. It chugs on the hills but I still get 7 mpg average. The weight factor is important but not enough for me personally to buy a lighter vehicle just for towing. Never a problem getting it into neutral and with no steering lock makes everything a breeze to hook up. Having extra cargo space has been very useful many times.

[Starfire83]

Thanks all for the comments. It does give me pause not to have a shoulder belt. You are correct, I did look into the shoulder belt issue by contacting Prevost. There is no "approved" way to add this and I would have to install new seats which is something I would not consider. One thought I had was to find someone who installs safety harnesses into race cars. We have an amateur track near us and I know some people who race there. I will investigate.
Chris, we also have a 1500 Sierra, so glad to hear that it tows well and hooks up easily. By going with a lighter vehicle, would it make that much of a difference on hills? My old Dutchstar with a 450 Cummins really chugged with a Gladiator. We are leaning towards the coach with the Volvo engine. Does anyone have any experience with significantly different weight tow vehicles on hills? Does it make a major difference behind a Prevost bus?
Thanks for the feedback.
Jerry