Headhunter Toilet Trouble

[Lee Bornstein]

Replaced defective Pressure Switch on my Water Pump today and now, when I flush the toilet, my Headhunter Toilet will not stop running water till I shut off water pump for a few minutes.

I know the Headhunter operates on an electronically timed valve... Press button and water runs for a few seconds then shuts off.

Just thinking.... If muck got into the pump pressure switch it probably got into the toilet solenoid valve as well and that could explain why toilet doesnt stop running till water pressure is turned off. No filter on flush water other than chunk filter on inlet to pump I think.

Anyone have any experience with this toilet? Where is the water solenoid valve for toilet? Rebuildable? Any Suggestions on how to remedy this?

Water here at Lake of Ozarks is Rising Fast! Help!

Lee & Barb

[merle&louise]

Lee,

I don't think that I have a Headhunter toilet, I believe that mine is a Microphor. It has an adjustable screw that controls the amount of water that enters the bowl when flushed. The adjusting screw also adjust the TIME that the flap stays open.

Do you have any literature on the unit that would show where this adjusting screw might be located? If not, maybe if you Google "Headhunter toilet" you could download an owner's manual.

Good Luck - toilets are very important! :)

[Kevin Erion]

Tuga,
The timer on a Microphor is only for the amount of water allowed to fill the bowl, the flapper valve is on a cam and follows the rotation of that cam. I don't think our toilets work the same as the other brand that Lee has, not sure but I think.
Kevin

[garyde]

Lee, if you turn off the pump do you still have water pressure when you are hooked up to shore water? The reason I ask, maybe your water pressure valve is too high on your pump. See if you have any problem just using shore water pressure.

[nrhareiner]

Good morning,

Ther may be two reasons for your problem with the head hunter toilet. The first is a control ususally found on the left lower side of the bowl behind a removable panel. It is low near the floor. This controls the amount of time the toilet is activated with every flush. The second area may be the small diaphram valve in the mechanism itself. Jon W. knows more about that fix since we both have had problems over the past year.

If the pump was a problem with "gunk" the activation control could have been effected.

Kim Sloan
02 Vantare XLII S?

[Lee Bornstein]

Found the Problem.

Diaphram on Headhunter Flush Valve has small pin-hole to allow water to repressurize diaphram after flushing. Some debris got into it and plugged pinhole.

Major task to get at Flush Valve - its buried in the wall behind a cabinet and you've gotta be 2 ft tall and skinny as a tooth pick to maneuver in the space available.

Had to remove 1" pressure inlet hose to move valve enough to get at the screws holding diaphram in place. Once I got to valve it was easy enough to remove, clean and replace diaphram.

Lots of swearing though. Doubt is someone the size of JDUB could maneuver around in there. I had my head and only one arm inside cabinet as I worked on it. Wish I had enpugh room for both hands.

All fixed. In case anyone's interested, toilet uses less that 0.7 gallons per flush. I captured and measured blackwater flow (clean water) at sewer hose.

Lee

[lewpopp]

Come on over and catch a flush of my toilet. You would wish for 10 ft legs to run, never mind being skinny to fit in small places. I'll let you measure my flushes as long as you want. Good boy, good boy. Now we have all of the facts. except... The quantity you measured, does that also take into consideration the solids?

[Lee Bornstein]

Lew:
Just measuring water consumption not blackwater load.

Wouldn't want to test it on your coach till you get all the Zimmerman suggested updates installed.

Never know what might come out of your tank till it's nautically certified.

Lee

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lee,


Sorry for the lack of response, but I was away playing pilot. It was my time for my regular recurrent training and I was being abused by an instructor in the plane and sim.

I know you have your problem solved, but at the risk of repeating something previously posted all Headhunter toilet owners should do some self educating before problems occur.

I had a similar situation to yours. I ended up learning more than I ever wanted to know about our toilet flush valves and the plumbing system.

All Headhunter toilet owners should at the very least look at their coaches and verify the water line to the Headhunter valve has at least a check valve, and preferably a valve to turn off the water to the toilet. If it has no check valve, and a problem occurs like Lee's or mine, you will backflow toilet water into the fresh water holding tank.

A short version of the system operation: The push button on the toilet is electronic and has the timing built into it. It actuates and electronic solenoid on the flush valve and that opens the valve to flow water to the toilet. A manually adjusted ball valve, teed off the toilet water supply tube can be opened or closed a little to regulate the water level in the bowl.

The flush valve will shut off as long as the small orfice in the rubber diaphragm is not blocked. Water flows through that orfice and it equalizes pressure on both sides of the diaphragm and the valve closes. On the valve is a small plastic knob. You can manually turn that knob to actuate the flush cycle in the event the electronic push button fails.

The knob has to be returned to the off position to stop the water flow.

Lee's problems in accessing the valve were the same as mine, and I relocated my valve after I resolved my problem. I think the valves and the system are very trouble free, but as owners you should seriously consider learning where the flush valve is located, how to access it, and how you can remove the screws around the top to clear anything that might have blocked the orfice. The time to do that is when nothing is wrong, because if you are tooling down the road and someone uses the toilet and does not realize the toilet is still running you can have unintended consequences. And turning off the pump to stop the flow is OK, but you really need to know if you have that check valve in the system, because if not, a zero water pressure condition, with an open flush valve contaminates your fresh water supply with the contents of the toilet.

[Stelan73]

We had the exact same problem a a few months ago. We removed the toilet (a real pain) and cleaned the diaphargm. The toilet worked properly for about 15 flushes and then the problem reappeared. We eventually had to have a new diaphargm installed and haven't had a problem since. Your symptons are exactly the same ones we had.

Steve Lane

[Lee Bornstein]

I'm going to replumb it this fall to relocate the flush valve and install a shutoff in the 1" line. Have to remember that the shutoff should be a valve that does not restrict water flow.

John: What kind of 1" valve did you use? Does a 1" Ball Valve have non-restrictive 1" ID Flow??

Time to do this is when I remove the toilet and tile the floors.

Lee

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I'm going to replumb it this fall to relocate the flush valve and install a shutoff in the 1" line. Have to remember that the shutoff should be a valve that does not restrict water flow.

John: What kind of 1" valve did you use? Does a 1" Ball Valve have non-restrictive 1" ID Flow??

Time to do this is when I remove the toilet and tile the floors.

Lee

Lee, there are both kinds of ball valves, those that reduce flow and those that don't. You should be able to find what you need at Lowes or Home Depot, or a good hardware store. Be sure to get stainless steel, unless you prefer plastic.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lee,

If you do a search you should find where I posted what valve and check valve I used. I got the ball valve at Lowe's and it has a flow path that is fully open.

When I relocated the flush valve I put it where I can access it from a panel in the bottom of a cabinet under the stove. I can turn off pressure and there is no back flow, I can close the ball valve and isolate the toilet if it fails and I still have all other devices that use water still working.

If you can't find it let me know and I will repost the pictures.

[Darl-Wilson]

I just replaced the flapper in my toilet and am ready to reinstall. In the course of using the protruding wires to check the electric toilet motor I apparently tripped the breaker or destroyed a fuse. The problem is I don't know where the breaker/fuse is located on my 1997 45XL Country Coach conversion. I couldn't find anything in my Prevost repair manual and all the circuit breakers were ok. I reset all of them. The areas I checked were the breakers inside the doors under the driver's seat, the rear motor compartment, the inverter/house battery compartment and even looked inside some of the baggage/water tank compartments. Does anyone have an idea where this thing is fused?:confused:

Martha and I are getting ready to make our 1st 2008 trip to Seibt at Pahrump,NV to meet Jim Skiff to check out the resort and other recreation possibilities in the area. Harry and Shirley Hoppe were going to go with us but they had some important business that conflicts with our trip but they will be there on May 5 for POG-VI. If anyone has anything you would like us to check on while we are there please let us know right away. We plan to leave this Thursday, Jan 24th and will be back home on Monday or Tuesday. My phone number is on the POG (Dale) map if you want to call.

Of course this all depends on getting our toilet fixed! I know I can depend on some ideas from my POGer Pals. Oh, one last thing. Last night some a$$wholes egged the back of our coach.:mad: Temp is now 42 degrees with snow expected before Green Bay wins the playoff game. Anyone wanna help with the de-egging? I didn't think so!

Thanks in advance for the toilet fuse help.

Darl

[garyde]

Hi Darl. The fuse link might just be at the toilet. If not it should be in the bank of fuses for the converion circuits, those should be grouped all in one place. Is it 120 volt, 24volt or 12 volt?

[truk4u]

Darl,

You may not like this! Mine is Red wire number 424 and comes from the ECC in the first bay. Look at the ECC and see if one of the green lights are out and that will probably be the blown fuse. On mine, this also controls the doorbell and galley cabinet light. Check the all the other fuses on the Daughter boards so be sure no other is blown.

[Darl-Wilson]

Gary and Tom, thanks for the ideas. This is a red 12v wire and a ground wire coming directly out of the wall behind the toilet and connects to a white and a red wire in back of the Microphor LF220-12v toilet. The toilet is not fused inside. This is the left outside wall without an access panel. I did not check the compartment directly below the toilet because the compartment door will not open completely because of the proximity of the coach to my house. I think the compartment below is where the holding tanks are located.

Tom, I haven't found any fuses in that 1st compartment under the steering wheel, I only found circuit breakers. There were several LED lights, both red and green. Some were lit. I may have overlooked fuses if they are there. That is a bad trait of mine. Ask my wife!

I will double check that area again and the compartment directly under the toilet. Those wires might very well be connected to another circuit since they are 12V and would be common in the wall for a variety of lights, etc.

Thanks for pointing me in another direction. I will let you know what I find.

[Ray Davis]

Darl,

I think Tom is referring to the large motherboard console in the first bay?

[Darl-Wilson]

Thanks Ray! I need all the help I can get. I check that out tomorrow if we don't get the snow that the weatherman promised for the next 3 days. This is when I envy you folks in SoCal.

[Ray Davis]

Enjoy the trip to Pahrump, and let us know how it looks. It's hard to believe only 4 more months to rally time!

Ray

[truk4u]

Darl,

The ECC (Electric Control Cabinet) located in the first bay mounted against the forward bulkhead is where you need to go. This has nothing to do with the steering bay compartment. You have blown a fuse in the ECC, there is no other in-line fuse.

[garyde]

Darl,

On mine, this also controls the doorbell and galley cabinet light.

Tom, Toilet, Doorbell, & Cab. Lights. Interesting . :D

[truk4u]

Gary,

Yep, go figure, CC at their best!:(

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'm sure there is a joke somewhere in that but I'll have to leave it up to JDUB to conjure that up since it appears within his area of interest.

[Darl-Wilson]

Tom, Gary & Ray, thanks for all your help. Now I know where to go to fix this problem but getting there might be a bigger problem. I have snow 1/2 way up the baggage door! I think I am going to drive my car down to meet Skiff at The Seibt Desert Resort (http://www.seibtdesertretreat.com/) in Pahrump on Friday. We have snow in the forecast here in Reno through next Monday. Driving a 45 XL about 800 miles, 1/2 of it in snow, is not my idea of a relaxing Prevost weekend.

Jim and I will let you know what we found down there and maybe some options for the 'free day', etc. Any suggestions would be welcome. We will be close to Death Valley (http://www.nps.gov/deva/) and Las Vegas. Tours to LV, Hoover Dam, flightseeing over the Grand Canyon, and a show might be a suggestion. There are at least 3 public golf courses (http://www.rapidyne.com/pahrump/golf.htm) right in Pahrump. If anyone wants to go to Las Vegas casinos before or after POG-VI let me know and I will try to get discount coupons for the Circus Circus RV Park on The Strip and discounts or "Freebees" for shows or attractions. If you want to call me my number(s) are on the "Dale Map'.

Harry and Shirley Hoppe were going to meet us down in Pahrump but they had an urgent business meeting that conflicted with the Skiff/Wilson schedule. Harry has been a big help working on the Seibt location selection. I am sure he will be more involved as POG VI moves along. Sure hope you all can be there.

Sorry to digress from the toilet problem. Sometimes I just don't know when to quit!:rolleyes:

Thanks,

Darl

[Darl-Wilson]

Darl,

You may not like this! Mine is Red wire number 424 and comes from the ECC in the first bay. Look at the ECC and see if one of the green lights are out and that will probably be the blown fuse. On mine, this also controls the doorbell and galley cabinet light. Check the all the other fuses on the Daughter boards so be sure no other is blown.

This was exactly the problem Tom! I crawled into this bay and found 2 fuses blown. I didn't check the wire number as I was working with both bay doors open and the wind blowing about 40 mph with light snow.

Thanks for your help and the suggestions of other members that offered to help me with this problem. Toilet is installed and ready to travel. My next project is to install the Guest charger but I think I will wait until the storm ends before I tackle that one.

[rff105]

I have a Headhunter Toilet question. I have read all the headhunter toilet posts and I would like to know how do you clear a clog. We recently had a clog that probably was due to having the cycle set to short. We did not have a plunger and remembering some of the posts about how the headhunter works. I was worried that even if I did plunge the toilet it may be just as likely to force the toilet water back in to the fresh side as it would to push the clog to the sewage side. Also with no water shut off I knew if I flushed it again there would be no way to stop it from overflowing until the cycle completed. So a gathered up a bunch of towels and took my chances and flushed it again, and lucky it worked.

But if you do have a real clog can you safely plunge the toilet? How would you shut off the water after you flush (I guess looking back I could hit the water pump button, but you would still get the pressure left in the system)?

[Darl-Wilson]

Richard, I don't have a clue about your toilet but the water shut-off should be in a manifold inside the 3rd bay on the left side of your coach located near the kitchen area. On my XL45 there is an individual shut-off for every plumbing fixture in the coach including the toilet. It may be different on your H3 but I am guessing you will find it in that vicinity. Turning off the water pump will not stop the water completely until the pressure tanks are de-pressurized and is not an acceptable way to turn off the toilet. Good Luck!
Darl

[rff105]

I was talking about a shut off like is on your home toilet that you use when an overflow looks imminent. Our coach does a shut off for the toilet on the manifold in the plumbing bay but by the time you get there the flush will be complete and the damage done.

Also turning the pump off is probably not a good option because of possible cross contamination issues listed earlier.

[Darl-Wilson]

Richard, I too like the idea of an inside shut-off valve. On mine it should be a simple chore by simply cutting the tubing and installing an in-line valve. I do not have a lot of excess tubing outside the wall but it is adequate for the valve. This will be my next chore after I get my Guest battery charger installed.

[garyde]

Hi Richard . I would think, because these units are electrical actuated, you are not dealing with water pressure but with a switch and solonoid. Once you press the switch on the toilet, water is released. So, the only way to close off the water is to close the solonoid.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Richard,

Having had the pleasure of dealing with my Headhunter toilet and flush valve up close and personal I have some insight that may help anyone with the Headhunter toilet understand their system.

First, the Headhunter operation is simple. When the toilet is flushed, a high velocity fresh water flow at the bottom of the trap is initiated. That creates a vacuum or a low pressure area that evacuates the bowl. The contents of the bowl are directed down the drain and in essence "pushed" by the fresh water flow. There are no flappers or seals from the bowl downstream.

While the fresh water supply pipe is located in the drain outlet, no back flow should occur as long as the flush valve diaphragm seats and the water for flushing is shut off.

If there is a blockage the use of a plunger will direct the waste toward the black water holding tank because that is the path with almost no resistance. Waste cannot travel back throught the flush valve if the flush valve has shut off the flow.

The water level in the toilet bowl is central to the flushing of the toilet and can be adjusted. There is a valve in a line that tees off the line from the flush valve that directs water to the toilet rim. Trial and error with this valve will allow you to find the water level necessary to complete a flush, but not use more fresh water than necessary.

I have learned when a JDUB Anaconda sized deposit is made, that adding more water to the bowl via a pot or jug prior to flushing will almost always eliminate the need for more severe action such as a plunger or snake.

To eliminate any misunderstanding I will restate the backflow issue. In a headhunter toilet installation the flush valve has the potential to remain open. It is not common, and is usually caused by a blockage of a small hole in the diaphragm. If this occurs the only solution is to turn off the water supply to the flush valve until the flush valve can be serviced.

If the water flow to the flush valve is turned off by turning off the water pump, allowing the system pressure to go to zero, the contents of the toilet will back flow into the fresh water tank if the coach is not equipped with a check valve in the flush valve water line. If the flow to the flush valve was shut off by a valve in that water line and not by allowing whole house water pressure to drop to zero there will be no back flow.

[truk4u]

Darl,

I doubt you need a shut off, even though you have one on the manifold in the plumbing bay. The Microphor is electric, no juice, no water.

[Darl-Wilson]

The reason I want to install one is that when I disconnect or remove the toilet it is easy to turn off and I don't have to worry about dripping. Right now I need to re-install the toilet because I have a leak, maybe at the wax ring, and the shutoff nearby will make it easier. Who knows, with my luck (make that skill) this may not be the last time I will need to remove this thing.

[truk4u]

Gotcha Darl... I had mine in the Marathon out several times due to the water leaking out of the bowl and understand your point. Prior to removing the water line, I bled off all water pressure down to zero and had very little leak when I took the line off. I had to get the toiled positioned just right each time I put it back together to make sure the wax ring lined up good and as you've experienced, they're not light.

Good luck and if you need professional stinky, icky turd type advise, Jdub is your man!:p

[Jerry Winchester]

Bite Me Krakman.

[jelmore]

L
A short version of the system operation: The push button on the toilet is electronic and has the timing built into it. It actuates and electronic solenoid on the flush valve and that opens the valve to flow water to the toilet. A manually adjusted ball valve, teed off the toilet water supply tube can be opened or closed a little to regulate the water level in the bowl.

The flush valve will shut off as long as the small orfice in the rubber diaphragm is not blocked. Water flows through that orfice and it equalizes pressure on both sides of the diaphragm and the valve closes. On the valve is a small plastic knob. You can manually turn that knob to actuate the flush cycle in the event the electronic push button fails.


A little more on this Headhunter configuration:

We were getting erratic long flushes that turned into always long flushes. A near disaster when dry camping. Scott Mulligan (very helpful) at Headhunter said to clean the diaphragm in the flush valve, and that didn't help. I ordered a new diaphragm and that didn't help. Talked to Scott again and he asked if I had adjusted the timer switch. Well, I didn't know there was one and it's not in the Headhunter manual. Viola! The flush time is adjusted. Long if you need it, short if you don't. It's a little blue knob, easily accessible below the flush button on the timer module. Turn clockwise to shorten the flush cycle. I don't know how this one got out of adjustment, but I might guess the timer module is failing. We'll see on that.

Just passing this info along and add to collective knowledge.

[phorner]

Jim,

Thanks for the "heads"-up, so to speak...:D

Good information to have.....

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jim, where is the timer module that has a flush button.
Is it on the toilet?

JIM

[jelmore]

On ours, a Royal Flush, it is right below the push button flusher, inside a velcro panel. It's about 1/4" diameter and can be easily turned by hand. Can't miss it.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

OK Jim, I'll check it out, Thanks!