Shock Replacement

[dale farley]

After the roller coaster ride to Kerrville on I-10, I decided to change my front shocks. They aren't leaking, but they appear to be pretty old (maybe original) shocks, and I feel sure new ones should make a difference in the ride. Several times when I hit a bump, I would notice the bus went up and down more than what it should have. Although everyone I talked to seems to agree this was one of the roughtest roads they've been on in a long time, I still think new shocks may be a good idea.

I called Marathon to start with, and they told me the shocks would be $324 each. He said they were a little pricey, and that they bought them directly from Prevost. I asked the salesman three times if he really meant $324 for each shock, and he said that was the price. I called Prevost, and all 8 shocks and 16 bushings are a total of $392, so I decided to change all 8 of them instead of just the front ones. I am still not sure the salesman at Marathon was correct in his quotes; that just seems like too much of a price difference.

Does anyone have any words of wisdom to share before I start the replacement process? Any specific things I should or shouldn't do? Any short cuts or better procedures? Thanks. Dale

[Jeff Bayley]

I think I remember getting all my shocks done at Prevost for about $800 or less parts and labor. Evidentley, these are super easy to replace for the novice mechanic but I just let them do it. This is one of the best "bangs for the buck" to improve your ride w/o a doubt.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Dale,

Check the prices with Prevost. The Marathon price is way out of line. You may also try to get the trade number of the shocks and then check prices with Fleet Pride, Truck Pro, or NAPA.

They are not hard to replace.

[dalej]

Dale, was the shock part # 630001 from Prevost? I just ordered two and they were $38.50 give or take some change. Then add 5 or 9 dollors for the rubber bushings, depending on if you get the one or two piece. I ordered the two different types so I will let you know.

Take note of how many threads there are showing before you start to remove, so you can tighten back to that point.

Use a pry bar to help remove the old one's and install the new one's, just press on the eyes of the new one's. Soapy water helps you slide the new one's on

Have your VIN # ready when you call.

[mike kerley]

Prevost Jacksonville changed all of mine for about $900. The front ones are easy (i could have done it, that easy), but several of the rears are really awkward to get at (they pulled the drives and loosened the mud flaps) and with out a BIG air wrench, I'd have been there a while struggling to get the nuts off.

Makes a huge difference in the ride. I-10 east bound still had some rough sections (rougher than west bound) and even with new shocks, upset Karen several times. I'm just the driver, I dont make the roads, I pleaded.

What a great rally, were still reminiscing.

[dalej]

Thanks Mike for input. Since I bought a 1 inch impact, I don't think twice about removing the wheels, It makes it nice to access the work area. There are cavities that you can work in without removing the wheels. I would recommend still doing the work myself.

While traveling home from Kerrville I was touching the wheels while fueling in Okie city. The curb side tag was warmer then usual, so when I got home I pulled off the wheel caps to check the oil, it was fine. While inspecting the wheels to see if the seals that I just replaced were dry, I noticed the brake return spring was broke. This is why the wheel was warm. When I had done the seals the tag brakes only had one spring, so when the one broke the pad was just laying on the moving drum. I called Prevost and ordered 4 new ones to put on.

It is nice to get under the coach and inspect it when you arrive home, so you can see any leaks or items that need your attention. While greasing the front I noticed the two shocks that were broke.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This comes under the "For What Its Worth Department".

I replaced all the shocks on the original coach and it was so long ago I can no longer say with confidence whether I did it with a 1/2" impact or a big wrench. All I remember is that it did require one of the wheels to come off per side. I don't remember now if it was the tag or a drive wheel.

But I do know it was not a big project, and it was fairly easy.

I did remove one of the shocks on the present coach to replace the bushings. I did use the 1/2 inch impact wrench and I think the whole job, start to finish was about 15 minutes. If I had to use a wrench it would have only taken a few minutes more.

[mike kerley]

This also, from the for what its worth department.

When Prevost was changing the rear shocks, at least two of them seemed to take forever to break loose with the impact wrench. They had been on the coach for 13 years, and were in no hurry to leave home. That sucker hammerered and hammered and hammered. Each one toke over 30 minutes to break loose. I'm thinking, had I been laying under this with a breaker bar (limited movement) I would have never got them loose. Maybe I'm just trying to justify the $'s. I hate getting almost finished with a job and finding one screw that is stripped and wont come out or one or two bolts that just wont break loose, and the job is a bust.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Having been a long term member of the busted knuckles club I find my tolerance level for fighting with old parts is diminishing.

Had my coach given me the grief you describe, Mike, my die grinder and a 3" abrasive wheel would have been brought into play to start the process of splitting the nut. I can't remember the size of the nut on the shocks, but it is hard to imagine a 3/4 or 1" impact wrench wouldn't spin the nut right off.

Ditto with removing any bushings that might have vulcanized themselves to the shock mount.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Dale you have 4 shocks on the steer axle and you have snapped the eyelets off on the forward ones?

[win42]

Jon: Please post a picture of that machine you have that turns your bus on it's side for all those easy repairs and replacements. Rear shocks are tough to do even in a pit.

[lewpopp]

Harry, it was a pleasure to meet you and your lovely wife. Especially being escorted to our sites at Kerrville. Above all, the great times we spent together.

When do you fly to Oklahoma to pick up the new ride? I'm jealous.

Lew

[win42]

Lew: The pleasure of finally meeting you and kathy was the highlight of the trip for Shirley and I. You really are an old goat with whiskers. We had a lot of fun with everyone there. Be careful with those ice cubes.
We will be headed to Tulsa next Thursday to pick up the Liberty. Were getting anxious to drive it home. I just hope it's half of what Jon says those Liberty's are all about. Save your nickles for Branson because were planning on that one if fuel cost level off.

[dale farley]

Well I can see everyone has been talking about my shock replacement job but me. I've been tied up all day helping my son move. Anyway, I did order all 8 shocks from Prevost Tuesday, and I received the bushings yesterday. I thought I might get the shocks today, but they didn't show up, so maybe Monday.

I have removed my tag wheels before, but I see my rear wheels are tighter than my tags, so I don't know if I can get them or the front wheels off with my manual wrench and a cheater bar. I had a large air compressor that I used to work on my bull doziers but sold it last year since I didn't think I would need it after I got rid of the doziers. As with everything else I get rid of, I always need it afterwards. I don't know if I can get a long enough bar to devleop the leverage I will need to remove the wheels, but I will give it a try. If not, I suppose I will work around the wheels. I guess I could buy one of the 12X multipliers, but $650-$700 sounds expensive for a wrench. I intend to put the bus on my ramps so it will be about 12 inches off the ground before I start.

[garyde]

Hi Harry. Before you leave with your Liberty, spend as much time as you can to check out switches, guages, etc. It will take some time. Take notes. Enjoy. Gary

[dalej]

Joe, yes I had two of the four shocks with broken eyelets. The front right and rear left on the steer axle.

The Prevost Dude says its from going into a curve and then hitting a bridge at the same time. He says that the front raises beyond the shock limit and pops the eye. It made sence to me, since some of the roads are pretty rough sometimes.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Harry,

I have to disagree. Replacing the shocks doesn't require a pit. When I replaced them on the other coach I did it on a barn floor.

Dale,

If you will be doing your own work on the bus you do need proper tools. This is especially true when removing and remounting the wheels. The lug nuts have to be torqued. The X12 at $700 or even more is a better deal than a 1" impact wrench and a compressor with a large tank. You can take the X12 on the road with you. You cannot take the compressor and impact wrench.

The best deal however is to have all of them.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Harry,

Your "new" Liberty should come with all the books, including the Liberty manual. Before you and Shirley head out from Tulsa go through the book to familiarize yourselves with the systems. They will be different from your Royale. Without doing any driving you should first learn how to start and stop the generator, the Webasto, and understand the inverter panels and what systems run off the inverters and which ones do not.

As a veteran of the refrigerator-door-opening-when-driving club go to Home Depot or Lowes and get some of the wide Velcro and on top of the refrigerator doors, out of site, put a generous strip of Velcro to prevent yourself from joining this not so exclusive club.

Keep phone numbers for Liberty and Liberty owners handy in case you have questions or problems on the trip. We all can help. I am sending you an email.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Well I can see everyone has been talking about my shock replacement job but me. I've been tied up all day helping my son move. Anyway, I did order all 8 shocks from Prevost Tuesday, and I received the bushings yesterday. I thought I might get the shocks today, but they didn't show up, so maybe Monday.

I have removed my tag wheels before, but I see my rear wheels are tighter than my tags, so I don't know if I can get them or the front wheels off with my manual wrench and a cheater bar. I had a large air compressor that I used to work on my bull doziers but sold it last year since I didn't think I would need it after I got rid of the doziers. As with everything else I get rid of, I always need it afterwards. I don't know if I can get a long enough bar to devleop the leverage I will need to remove the wheels, but I will give it a try. If not, I suppose I will work around the wheels. I guess I could buy one of the 12X multipliers, but $650-$700 sounds expensive for a wrench. I intend to put the bus on my ramps so it will be about 12 inches off the ground before I start.


Dale, Helping the son move is a good thing! Now you can get down to work.:eek:
In case you want to spend some Lew Bucks and don't know it there is a Harbor Freight Tool Co in your area with specials on the cheap a-- tools that are good enough for the occasional job. You might get by with one that will work with the bus air comp. if you investigate their specifications.

I think there are some early posts on this topic and you should be able to buy a tool that is light and powerful enough to carry at all times in the bus for on the go repairs.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=321&pricetype= ("http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=321&pricetype=")
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/retail_stores.taf?f=detail&Retail_Store_ID=191 ("http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/retail_stores.taf?f=detail&Retail_Store_ID=191")
;) :) JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

I don't think so. If anybody out there in Prevost land is seeking the tool that will make wheel removal on the road or in the shop easy I can tell you that your options are limited.

The X12 will work and requires no air. Use it with a 1/2" torque wrench and it works no matter where you are. A little heavy and somewhat cumbersome, but it definitely gets the job done.

http://www.times12.com/wrench.htm

For around the shop the absolutely best way to do the heavy stuff is a big compressor, at least six HP, with a 175 PSI upper limit and an 80 gallon tank. That, combined with 1/2" hose and a 1" impact wrench and you can easily deal with the most stubborn nuts or bolts.

Finally, if you are willing to rely on a two person method you can use a 3/4" drive wrench with about a 4 foot breaker bar. The wrench can be used solo on the front wheels, but because the nuts are inset from the body or wheel face on the tags and drives a drive extension is required and this is where a second person is needed to hold that pivot point from cocking when loosening or tightening lug nuts.

A 1/2" impact wrench has many applications on our coach, such as brake chamber replacement, shock replacement, etc. but save your money for the tools you really need such as the ones listed above.

Unless you decide to never do any of your own work, or unless you live across the street from a Prevost service center every single tool you purchase for work on the coach will ultimately be CHEAPER than driving to and paying for someone else to service your coach.

At POG III it was clearly demonstrated just how quick and easy it was to change the windshields on Ray's coach....almost all other jobs are just as easy. Some involve a few more tools and a few more steps but none are so complex the average person can't do them.

[truk4u]

Jim,

Your link for Dale is for a 1/2 inch impact wrench that is useless for the tire work and maybe even the shock bolts. You need a 1" impact, 160 PSI compressor with enough volume to do the job. My 120 PSI compressor and 3/4 impact won't even budge the lugs, I have to use my neighbors service truck who is a dozer mechanic.;)

[dale farley]

I appreciate everyone's comments, and I agree that proper tools are a necessity to do any job. I may try doing the shocks without removing any wheels except the tags. I have two full sets of 3/4" sockets and ratchets, and I have someone to help me hold them while I do the turning. I haven't loooked yet, but I don't think my torque wrench goes high enough to know if I have the proper torque when installing the lug nuts.

The main reason I am reluctant to buy the 12X is I am not sure how long I will have the Prevost. We originally bought it in November because we were going to drive it back and forth to Montgomery, AL and live in it close to where our son had just moved. As noted in my post yesterday, he has now moved back to Pensacola, so everything is up in the air at this time. We really enjoyed POG III, and had a great time meeting many of the other owners. Our son is a minister and pastors a local church, so it is a little hard for us miss church without the Pastor noticing it. My wife also thinks our two grandsons may forget our names if we don't see them a few times a week, so we don't travel as much as we orginally had planned to do when we retired. We both love the bus, and my wife had me looking for a 45' after seeing all the ones at Kerrville, but things change on a daily basis around here. I've talked to others that had a nice 40', traded it for a 45' and wished they hadn't, so I don't know what I will do. I am perfectly happy with ours, and I enjoy the challenge of doing things myself.

Regardless what we may or may not do, I intend to maintain the bus while I own it, and I don't like taking short cuts on doing things properly. If I can't get the wheels off and torqued properly, I will either get another compresser or a 12X.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Don't forget to involve your family in your travels. Bringing the grandkids with you is great.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jim,

Your link for Dale is for a 1/2 inch impact wrench that is useless for the tire work and maybe even the shock bolts. You need a 1" impact, 160 PSI compressor with enough volume to do the job. My 120 PSI compressor and 3/4 impact won't even budge the lugs, I have to use my neighbors service truck who is a dozer mechanic.;)


Tom, I fully realise the 1/2" drive wrench is inadequate for Dale's job. I was in a hurry and assumed he would know what size wrench he would need. This page link does infact further down, list wrenches at substantial discounts that would be more than adequate for the bus. Such as Pt. No. 94109-IVGA @ $119.99. I thought that was a pretty good price. The air thing he has to figure out himself.
My main intention was to make Dale aware that Harbor tool had a physical store in his town.
I did think that someone had figured out a method to use bus air and change tires.
Sometime I type too much. Some time not enough. Sometime I get it right.
I guess I was wrong. Sorry about that.

:o JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

Most of us have learned the hard way. Our bus wheels have to be torqued to around 500 ft/lbs. The reality is if you have had your wheels removed by anyone the chances that the nuts have been torqued properly are slim to none. Most of the time somebody with a 1" impact wrench has driven the nuts home with full power.

But even when we torque them properly is it unlikely any wrench but a 1" impact wrench will work. The only way a 1" impact wrench will function is if the air line to it is at least 1/2", and that your compressor tank has a lot of volume of high pressure air, generally speaking around 150 to 175 PSI. You can use the bus air system in an emergency if the air hose directly connected to the tank is 1/2" and you are prepared to wait a long time between nuts to allow the bus system to repressurize. An overtightened lug nut will not be loosened because you just cannot get enough air to the wrench to start loosening it.

On a good day, with loose lug nuts, it might work, but I doubt it.

[truk4u]

No problem Jim, my comment was purely for folks that may not understand the impact sizes and power. As far as the bus compressor using the aux tank, it's good for blowing up bike tires and balloons. The aux tank doesn't have enough volume in my opinion to do much more. Before I get chastised, it's a great source for compressed air, but has it's limitations. ;)

[dale farley]

I understood what Jim meant about the air wrenches at Harbor Freight. I have a 3/4 wrench, but it won't remove the tires from the bus. My large compressor that I sold a few months ago, would drive a 3/4" but not a 1" at the volume needed to do such heavy work. I wouldn't at all mind buying the 1" impact wrench at Harbor Freight, but it will be a sizeable investment to get a compressor to drive it. I keep telling myself that I am trying to downsize my tool selection, but it doesn't seem to be working.

[matsprt]

One simple way is to call a local service truck. Ask what he would charge to come out and bust the nuts. Have everything ready. Then take your time and replace your shocks and do whatever else you can think of while the wheels are off. Then have him come back later to tighten.

You could be pleasantly surprised at what a local might charge if your flexible in your timing.

Michael

[win42]

You'ze gets this 8 ft. long steel bar adapted to the wrench supplied by prevost and you apply 260 # of body on the end and Wallaah !! the deed is done. If the nuts don't budge add another 8ft.of cheater pipe over the bar. Please reverse the system to put them back on. If this does not work I do not accept "I told you so's" from anyone except my wife. I had to use this method once myself while the kid from the tire repair place was on the cell phone to his girl friend.
Man me and Lew was driven Model A Fords when you guys were leaving yellow tracks on your moma's floor.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

A few years back when the need arose for the capacity to be able to remove semi-tires came up for us, we already had a gas powered air compressor for nail guns and such at construction sites.

So I put an additional air quick coupler of bigger diamiter to supply a 1 inch gun and then turned the pressure regulator up to the limit 150. This works great if it might help someone.

I've never had a wheel come loose, changed tires this way more times than I care to remember.

One disclamer, It cannot keep up continuous but a 6-count inbetween nuts is as long as you have to wait, and that is a compramise I'm willing to make.

I also use this for many other things and have figured out how to get it on and off my P-U, W/O ramps, by myself:)

Welcome to my office
1158

[win42]

Joe: Great post. Can you give us a littls more info on the compressor, namely the cfm per minute. Motor H.P. and Brand name. You are a great asset to our group because you do not on your ass sit. Too bad you weren't able to join us in POGlll. Keep an eye on the next scheduled POGlV it will be close to your backyard and those of us that have not met you and your wife are looking forward to it. :D

[mike kerley]

Jon, I see the problem. I dont have a die grinder or 3" wheel. Other than the one built in, no air compresser. I need more tools! I will remove the granite floor and fill up the bay with tools. That will make momma happy.

Sorry, that was a poor excuse. I'm to lazy to fight those battles and dont have a good place to fight them in now so I'll surrender and run to Prevost Service. I truly admire the work that you and several others accomplish on your coaches. I'll keep struggling with the electrical side.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Thank you Harry, I have been working alone on most repairs for entirely too long now.

The compressor is Campbell-Housfeld I'm pretty sure I bought it from www.NorthernIndustries.com. Long time ago, I think it was around 600. I'm sure they still have something like it. The ones they have know are a little greater cfms and that will be O/K and I think they went to a 5.5hp honda or something.

5HP Briggs engine, tank is 8-gal. It originally tripped out at 125psi but it does have a safty pop off that goes off at 150, I've set it just below that. They use some goofy #s for a givin cfm at a given pressure 8.4 SCFM at 90psi? Don't know if that helps.

Doing things this way gives portability and flexability, both were important for me.

[dalej]

When you order shocks from Prevost you will be ask your VIN # to get you the correct shocks. Then they will ask you if you want the two piece or one piece rubber bushing. If you have a large vice or a press you can save $2.40 per shock if you get the one piece, otherwise just get the two piece.

Here is some photos of the differences.

Photo 1, one piece bushing.
Photo 2, two piece bushing.
Photo 3, the way the shock looks when it arrives.
Photo 4, soaped up one piece and ready to install.
Photo 5, in the vise and ready to press in.

I think for the time and labor the two piece is the way to go, but you will have to decide. Pressing in the new bushings takes about 1 minute per shock.

Shocks are for my bus, part # 630001 $38.65
Bushings are, two piece, part # 630002 $2.59 each, takes four/shock.
Bushings are, one piece, part # 630062 $3.98 each, takes two/shock.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Nice post Dale. I see a lot of extra parts on your bench. Are they from the old days of rebuilding carburetors:eek: .

One more option for those that want to save the $2.40 is to buy the one piece bushings and cut them in half yourself. Use a utility knife and lube the blade with soapy water. Put the bushings on a wooden dowel rod or broom stick for easier and safer cutting.

Hellouise:p

[dalej]

Jim, do you ever stop thinking? Thats a brilliant idea. How come I didn't think of it!

Harry....no comments please, you have a new bus to think of. ;)

[lewpopp]

Guess I'll head for Nebraska to have some new front shocks installed.

Go post, Dale.

Lew

[dalej]

Any time Lew, any time....

[Orren Zook]

Dale,

Does that mean that Prevost sells their shocks without bushings? What was the number on the shock body? Blue body in Gabriel means gas shocks!!

[dale farley]

Orren,

This is a different Dale answering your question; but yes, the shocks and bushings are priced separately. I just paid $332 for my 8 shocks and $65 for the 16 bushings. I didn't think $397 was bad for all 8. Dale Farley

[dalej]

Sorry Orren, I didn't see the question.

[dale farley]

Dale,

Thanks for the picture of the bushings. I haven't started installing mine yet, but the vice and soapy water makes it look pretty simple.

[Joe Camper]

Lets revive this thread its a good one from the good old days.

Here is a upgrade EVERYONE with a straight axle should be doing if they do not already have it.

13008

It is an upgrade from 2 front to 4 front shocks. All U need is these 4 additional posts. The existing holes R protected at the factory with bolts so the threads will be perfect. Just take out the protecting bolts and insert the studs.

For all the suspension stuff I do it is shocks that give U that noticeable difference and R for sure the most bang for the buck.

I have the luxury of driving a great many different buses for U all not just my own. When folks come to my home I use the same dump station I dumped mine at, Cabalas. There is 1 particular bridge deck that is terrible. When I roll over it at speed with mine with 4 shocks it would do 1 and only 1 rebound. The front axles with 1 shock can not preform like that that. Big and noticeable difference.

Prevo has 5 different choices Koni Monroe matic (yellow) and 3 no name soft medium and firm. Monroe's R about 50 a piece. I say 20000 on steer axle shocks and 50000 on the rear for the Monroe's.

If U order these U also need 4 inner washers 4 outer washers 4 nuts.

[truxton]

Good call Joe,
Has anybody done any setting changes from medium to firm or soft on Konis and noticed a big difference?

Later
bv