help... buying a coach

[ajhaig]

I'm looking at buying a 1987 Prevost.

I know almost nothing about RV's, Prevost, etc.

The plan is to take the family on an extended road trip.

Looks and sounds like fun!

Any advice?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

AJ,

Tell us more about the coach. I owned one for about 15 years. It might be the same coach.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

I'm looking at buying a 1987 Prevost.

I know almost nothing about RV's, Prevost, etc.

The plan is to take the family on an extended road trip.

Looks and sounds like fun!

Any advice?

AJ, Let it all hang out. The more you post the more you will benefit!
:eek: :eek: I think?:confused: JIM

Happy Friday the 13th. Don't make any deals today!!:D

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Most used R/Vs are usually hard to sell and for sale for a very long time.

Start with a very low offer.

Check the tire codes, and replacement costs.

See how long it will hold air pressure.

Be willing to compramise on some things.

[ajhaig]

AJ,

Tell us more about the coach. I owned one for about 15 years. It might be the same coach.

The coach is on the CMI web site… It’s the “family coach.” As we will be traveling with children it seems fairly practical to us.

I believe it has about +/- 130,000 mi.

We are not looking for a “museum piece”… we want something safe and relatively reliable and somewhat practical.

One of my concerns is that the “family” appeal greatly limits the potential re-sale value.

Many thanks.

AJ

[dalej]

AJ, what is CMI website?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I've never heard of that site either.

Are you at all mechanicly inclined?

Resale value? Whats that????????

Make extra effort to get something you'll be happy with for a long time. Best way to combat that resale issue.

[Just Plain Jeff]

CMI is Creative Mobile Interiors. They are a site sponsor of www.prevost-stuff.com (which you can get from the front page of that site). Here's their website: http://www.creativemobileinteriors.com/ ("http://www.creativemobileinteriors.com/")

Owen is the head honcho there. He was a speaker at POG I, for those who may have forgotten that event, last year. (sheesh)

[Joe Cannarozzi]

aj
You say you know almost nothing about R/Vs?

Have you ever had one of any kind, ever used one for a few days like a friends, or rented?

[Ray Davis]

I assume this one is appealing because of the bunks? You mentioned taking a family on an extended vacation.

I'm personally concerned about a couple of things

1. $145k seems like a lot for a 1987 coach, although it's had some interior upgrades.

2. They don't give any of the details of the coach at all. I didn't know it was an 87, other than your comments.

3. There's no pictures of the engine, bays, generator etc, which are pretty standard on most site.

4. There doesn't appear to be awnings on this coach, which are nice in the summer when parked.

5. This coach, with the bunks, and the funny observation deck will be hard to sell (personal guess here), should you later want to upgrade or get rid of it. Which is part of why I say $145 is way too high for it.


There's just kind of a lack of information on this coach, which would make me ask plenty of questions.


How many people are going on this extended trip? Where are you traveling?

Anyway, just some personal thoughts. Obviously, you know better than I what you need/want, and your capabilities in terms of affording it, maintaning it etc. Don't be surprised if a 1987 needs a bit more work than you expected. Happened to me on my '93, and I put in a ton of money to fix some things that I expected to work.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

AJ, I will echo what Ray said, but with a caveat. If the bunk beds are important to you a slightly higher than market price can be ignored because there are few quality coaches out there with bunks.

But....The flip side to that is that when you are done with the coach it is not going to be easy to sell because of the bunks.

Buying a Prevost is not for the faint of heart. These are very good vehicles built for heavy duty commercial service. As these coaches age however, the lower price is offset by a need for increased repairs or maintenance. Once a coach is brought up to reliable standards however they are unmatched. A conventional RV of this vintage will not offer the safety, durability or years of service a Prevost will provide.

You do need to get someone familiar with these coaches to do a very comprehensive inspection of the coach, and you definitely need to educate yourself about what other coaches are out there in your price range, their condition, systems and features.

Almost all of this on this site bought coaches that were used when purchased. There is a lot to the purchase and the pitfalls can be very expensive. But if you can buy a coach that meets your needs for a price that satisfies you, and it has been well maintained and needs little or nothing, it is possible you could have a long period of trouble free service.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

AJ, Thoroughly check out the mechanicals. Evidently the amenities ,ie. livability aspect of the coach meet your needs or you wouldn't be asking about it. You have not told us enough about yourself for anyone to offer an opinion as to the suitability for your adventure. That would be how large a family and the age range and where you plan to travel.
If the trip is one of a lifetime and for an extended time period, you may justify the the cost of the buss, amortizing it over the time of use. The sale price at the end may be totaly justifiable to you to wright off most of the purchase price and not be concerned that you will have a difficult time reselling it. I guess what I am trying to say is when you are done with it sell it cheap and easy.
If you plan to stay in the US and travel the interstates and stay in Deluxe RV Parks requires one kind of coach.
If you are planing on Mexico, Canada, Alaska, or boondocking around the back roads of rural America requires something completely different.
Regardless of where or what you do, because of your admitted lack of knowledge on the subject have someone thoroughly qualified perform a PDI for you prior to purchasing anything.
FYI another site with a similar unit is:http://www.thebusman.com/buses-details.aspx?BusNo=63 ("http://www.thebusman.com/buses-details.aspx?BusNo=63")
Educate yourself and make a wise decision and life will be good.:D ;)
JIM

[dalej]

AJ, here's one, I did a search on google for a 1987 Prevost.

http://www.rvsearch.com/findrv/index.cfm/a-d/tc-36261/vid-185826/

Jerry Winchester might be able to check it out for you, or someone else in that area. There will be a lot of us close next week.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Nice find Dale, great price.

That's one bus I don't think will be for sale for long.

[garyde]

AJ. The following is what I have learned in regard to purchasing any Prevost:
1. Is there Paperwork regarding maintenace on the;
a. Engine
b. Transmission
c. Axles, Brakes, bearings, Seals
d. Air Systems
e. Generator , Batteries, Inverters, Transfer Switch
2. What is the age and status of:
a. Refer, Stove, Oven,
B. Holding Tanks
c, A/C units, Dash A/C
d. Water Pump
3. does everthing on the Dashboard function?
4. What condition is the Audio/Video & T.V's

Check all interior and exterior lights, Check all exhaust fans, etc.

Get up on the roof and see if it is properly Waterproofed.

How new are all the tires?

This is but an outline, and I am sure you can find more questions to ask. If you can not get verification on the Mechanical Maintenance , Keep looking. There are plenty of Prevosts out there. Gary

[Just Plain Jeff]

It is easy to fall into the trap of categorizing an entire class of coaches based on just one example. Since most Prevost conversions are unique, especially after 20 years with upgrades, modifications, it is tough to make blanket statements about ALL 1987 coaches.

In this thread there was a VanHool as an example in comparison. A Van Hool from Belgium is a junk coach, so that example is out of the running.

One thing you can say is that a 1987 is likely a 1986 chassis with mechanical fuel injection, not DDEC and some diesel techs like them because they can be adjusted with what we call tools and not electronic stuff: But you have to find the guys who know how to work on them. You'll get a little less mpg with a mechanical fuel injection system.

In my little experience with looking at buses, there are very few coaches, especially vintage coaches which have comprehensive maintenance records. Usually owners either lose interest in keeping same or they get lost somewhere along the way.

As a rule of thumb, if a coach has been used for private purposes, figure about 10K miles a year. A lot more than that would raise an eyebrow with some. Far less would suggest way too much storage, which means a hard look at fittings, bags, valves, tires and so on.

A family or sleeper coach is a specialty within a specialty. For someone looking for one, it's a premium. For everyone else it is a turn off. There was a 97 Liberty with two bunks I saw recently and the owner flipped it for a quick profit to another guy who was looking for same. Suspect he was lucky as the market would be thin for such a coach.

CMI is a company with deep experience in Prevost, MCI and other platforms. They have built many executive conversions from new and prior use coaches, most recently an MCI for CSPAN to use for the 2008 elections. Some of their people had worked at Executive and Custom Coach (the last generation of good quality coaches) and I would think they could do a competent and able PDI on a 1987 to the satisfaction of most people. In that year period, both companies built some pretty neat, high quality coaches, so they know what they are doing.

As to price, you are on your own. The value of such a coach comes down to what a buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to take. That being said, without a complete PDI, a buyer could get themselves into a deep pothole very quickly and without the safety net of a MangoBanCard, may be enough to get the buyer's attention very quickly.

Many of us say, that if you buy a Prevost, keep it maintained properly it will last you the rest of your life. Here is a chance for those making such a statement to fess up and see if they meant it.

Here's a 1951 Prevost motorhome, built as such when new: http://www.prevost-stuff.com/oldrigpage.htm ("http://www.prevost-stuff.com/oldrigpage.htm"). This coach is regularly used by Alan in the summers and they have a lot of fun with it and it is much older than the 1987.

You can keep the change.

Good luck and happy trails!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

One correction to what Jeff said. I suspect the 87 coach in question is a DDEC I coach. That means the shell will be a 1987 shell. The tip off is the square turn signal and tail lights.

To a novice of RV's and Prevosts in particular it means the coach has the Detroit Diesel Electronic Control, and is likely to have ATEC, the Automatic Transmission Electronic Control.

[Just Plain Jeff]

One correction to what Jon said.

It is important to know the chassis year, not the Model Year of the coach in question to answer the issue of mechanical vs. DDEC I/ATEC. This can be found in the engine compartment. That date is the month and year that the engine was installed in the chassis.

In this case it is a bigger deal. Don't go by the cosmetics of a coach to determine year as many owners in the late 80s-early 90s did upgrades with lights and so on.

The hard data is on the plaque in the engine compartment.

Also: If it is indeed a DDEC/ATEC system, you can get a data dump (gosh that sounds nasty) from a DD dealer or franchisee for some LewBucks.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

OK, since JPJ and I are one upping another, the model year designation for the start of DDEC is "H".

Since the DDEC was a running change it was introduced in the later models of that year designation, and was denoted by the change from the round lenses on the tail and turn signal lights to the square ones.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Something seems to be going wrong! Guys are joining and asking questions, but never to be heard from again????????????

[Just Plain Jeff]

Yo:

No intention to try any one-upping from this end.

When we first started looking for a camper we really got faked out by a lot of the coaches in the late-80 to 94 vintage. There was quite a business in conversion packages with headlights and tail-lights especially.

Here down in Po Folk Snyder Swamp, there are a couple of 85-92 buses which at first glimpse look like much newer units with square headlights, stacked rear light packages and so on.

For the first-stime buyer, new to the marketplace, just trying to pass along some of the DUH experiences we had to learn the hard way.

If we can remember what they were.

[ajhaig]

Something seems to be going wrong! Guys are joining and asking questions, but never to be heard from again????????????



Still here... Went to the Cape for the weekend...

I've got 5 children, ages 2-18... My wife and I will most likely be traveling with the two youngest age 2 & 3.

Our mission is to see as much of the country as we can... While we expect to be on the road for a year, we have no time commitments so who knows when we will be back.

Great input.

The older coach appeals to me because I'd rather spend some money and have things like suspension & other systems restored to new.

Are these coaches prone to corrosion? If so, where are the weak spots?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

No corrosion on our 86, NONE.

If you do get that 87 roll it through Chicago. We will have a clinic!

Have you ever used a camper before, for any amount of time, rent, borrow?

[ajhaig]

No corrosion on our 86, NONE.

If you do get that 87 roll it through Chicago. We will have a clinic!

Have you ever used a camper before, for any amount of time, rent, borrow?

Never... Should make it that much more of an adventure!

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

The only reference to corrosion I have heard about here is, I think from Jon and was about the radiator and caused by, NY road salt. If I am correct.:) JIM

[Ray Davis]

Never... Should make it that much more of an adventure!


So, first step is go out and rent (or purchase) the recent movie RV (with Robin Willams). Then watch it, and make sure you don't do anything that they did!!! :eek: You'll have a great time!

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Still here... Went to the Cape for the weekend...

I've got 5 children, ages 2-18... My wife and I will most likely be traveling with the two youngest age 2 & 3.

Our mission is to see as much of the country as we can... While we expect to be on the road for a year, we have no time commitments so who knows when we will be back.

Great input.

The older coach appeals to me because I'd rather spend some money and have things like suspension & other systems restored to new.

Are these coaches prone to corrosion? If so, where are the weak spots?

AJ,
In My Humble Opinion:D :D , The 2 & 3 year olds won't remember a thing about the trip, but you and your wife sure will! Go For It! You only live once.
;) :) JIM

[Just Plain Jeff]

As to corrosion/rust.

The nastiest bus I have seen to date was at Buddy Gregg's in Knoxville, hmmm, about 6 years ago. It was a Marathon, used by a guy in Northern Michigan during the winter for business. Lots of salt exposure.

Opening up the engine compartment, which was generally a mess anyway, there was generalized rust and resulting holes above and in front of the engine compartment and thick, crusted rust near the radiator cover and around the air release valve, center rear. A guy bought it as-is cheap and figured that it was a hobby coach. He had restored some old cars in the past and figured that he'd do the same with the bus.

Don't know how it turned out, but if you figure that the seated coach versions have the same mechanicals, same kind of exposure in northern climes and they are still on the road, there is little which can't be brought back, given the time and energy to do so.

Most coaches, including the seated coaches I've looked at are in pretty good shape. Nothing that can't be fixed, scraped/painted and brought back. That is, unless you are looking at an abused 6V71 that never had The Love put to it. But that level of coach may have significantly more severe issues anyway.

So.

Go buy a bus. You only live once.

Please.

[amanda]

you mentioned being down the cape this weekend, therefore i am assuming you're from massachusetts. me too. and it is a problam getting these things worked on up here. if you do end up with a bus, i'll give you my mechanics name, he'll come to your place for small jobs, which is great. good luck!!

[ajhaig]

Indeed, we live in Dover MA... I think I'm going out to Ohio next week to look at an 1988. Thanks for your help.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Ajhaig

Good luck and have fun looking at that 88 this weekend.

If you have any questions that come up while looking feel free to call me, mabye I might be able to shed a little light. 708 243 7871