Thinking About Lithiums

[Gil_J]

This is a great marketing slide I put together.

Folks there's much more to the conversion than what is shown. Yet I see shops, yes not just one shop, that aren't completing the job. Some go so far as to think you can just do a drop-in replacement. Yes, you can. Let me know how long your batteries last. There are some other critical system considerations.
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[Joe Camper]

Thats a great comparison chart well done. What specifically r u not seeing in the finish product with other shops?

[BadFitter]

I'm going to make the jump to Lithium's in 6 to 12 months (battery replacement time). All you smart people need to have it totally figured out by them.. smile!

I'm looking at doing a well thought out, integrated install. My goal is to double the capacity and half the weight.. maybe ambitious.

[Fratto]

Thanks Gil, this is great. We are due for batteries in the next year or so as well. There are snippets of what needs to be done in various threads but it would be great if one of you smart people could bring all that data together in one spot.

Thanks again for all that you do.

[Gil_J]

Les, are you delivering or should I pick it up?

[BadFitter]

Les, are you delivering or should I pick it up?

We will talk as it gets closer.

The nice thing about a L-Series CC is that the batteries are very accessible and already in an enclosed compartment. That alone should cut Gil's work in half and save me big bucks...

[Gil_J]

Mark,

Let me rant just a minute. It pisses me off when commercial service centers clearly take advantage of the snippets provide by those that know and then claim it to be their own. The good news is they can accept the responsibility for not completing the work. In some cases, their installations aren't safe. Not because of the introduction of lithium, but because of basic electrical systems installation requirements. Besides doing a one-for-one replacement on electrical system components, I'd insist on using a shop that has or is directed by someone that is familiar with the yachting standards for electrical systems established by the National Marine Electronics Association.

Even the converters have had shortfalls with their electrical systems over the years. Sometimes simply an oversight on installation other times design shortcomings. The top two findings I discover is inadequate cable restraints and the lack of protective devices. How hard is it to protect every positive connections leaving our house battery banks? The NMEA standard is to protect those conductors within 7 inches of the power source. That's extreme, but the point being it needs to be done as close to the batteries as possible and certainly within the same compartment. My converter ranks up their with one of the worst. Of course, the limited production converters tend to leverage their suppliers to tell hem what to do. Few have actual electrical engineers on staff. The high volume traditional motorhome builders don't tend to be any better. Even with their volume, not all have electrical engineers. Sadly, those large publicly traded companies are often ran by the bean counting CFO.

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Loose common ground lug that was left without the application on a corrosion control product like No-OX-ID

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Wrong size lug where some strands where cut and eventually shorted against the case of the inverter. BTW, terminal lugs should be closed ended tinned copper with adhesive lined heat shrink applied over them.

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12V automotive relays used to control 120V feed to roof air conditioners.

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Loose connector on a transfer switch contactor.

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Another burnt contactor most likely because of a loose connection.

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Broken battery post terminal. Most likely due to insufficient cable restraint.

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Unprotected battery terminal in an environmentally challenging location.


You get the point, I hope. Keep in mind not all of these pictures depict as converted problems.

[freds]

OK, it looks like you are looking at a slight gain in power storage as you started with 18.3KW of ACM which you are not supposed to drain over 50%.

Your price for the Lithium battery bank is about 1/3 below the cost of the BattleBorn batteries which is the gold standard for RV's. Which vendor are you looking at?

How are you planning on charging the Lithium battery bank? I.E. Solar, Direct alternator or isolated DC to DC converter.

Recycled EV batteries are attractive for reuse in RV's due to their energy density and cost.

However, in taking this path there is always some assembly required and you assume all risks for its success or failure!!!

In my case since I own a Tesla I went with recycled Tesla modules, Tesla specific BMS, 3KW of solar panels, 6KW 240 volt split phase inverter and Victron charge controllers for a raw cost of around $6,000.00.

The two Tesla modules which I am only using 80% capacity for around 9KW were about $2,400.00.

There are a number of examples out there of recycling either BMW or Leaf battery modules for RV house battery storage.

There is current deal on BMW modules that I think will go fast. Here's a link to a YouTube video discussing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqyZ1dBaGQw

[Gil_J]

Fred,

These are Battleborn batteries and the price used is directly from Battleborn's web site. Although other lithium solutions are available or can be made, I believe the off the shelf batteries properly integrated is the best bet for most RVers.

Charging will be done through the traditional, but adapted means. Engine alternator and inverter/chargers. Why would you use a DC-DC converter for charging and what would the DC source be? I would have DC-DC converters, but not for charging.

This system would be about $15K assuming some existing systems are capable.

[Anthem]

Dc to dc chargers are a very good method to control/isolate/modify alternator output to charge your lithium battery bank.

also I would not put bb as the gold standard. They are good and they support them well. But I think there are better made other units. And if you plan on using Victron gear - I don’t know why you wouldn’t use Victron battery units either.

[truk4u]

Another option for Gil’s comparison would be (4) 8D - 24v, 400 amps @ 85% = 340 amps and 244 lbs. about the same battery cost.